VW may rebrand its US arm as 'Voltswagen'
05-02-21, 06:25 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
05-02-21, 06:27 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
Then why do they sell so many vehicles, Dieselgate or no Dieselgate? Though they are not one of the largest names in the U.S., VW, depending on what one uses for a rating, is in a virtual tie with Toyota as the world's largest automaker.
True, Dieselgate was fraud. But this incident is not fraud, as with the diesel-emissions. And the idea that "Voltswagen" raised the stock price is probably nonsense.....IMO, a wild-goose chase.
Exactly.
True, Dieselgate was fraud. But this incident is not fraud, as with the diesel-emissions. And the idea that "Voltswagen" raised the stock price is probably nonsense.....IMO, a wild-goose chase.
Exactly.
05-02-21, 07:00 PM
#93
Lexus Fanatic
VW stock was starting to take a run before this supposed prank. I personally am not sure it was a prank, VW was mocked up and down maybe they said oh sh... better pretend we were joking.
05-02-21, 07:32 PM
#94
Lexus Test Driver
Who knows- they did make the public announcement a few days before April 1st, and the announcement itself was dated April 29th. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if they only used April Fools as a convenient exit after being flayed alive on social media.
05-03-21, 07:43 PM
#95
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Much ado about nothing. SEC will fine vw most likely because that's what they do, grab money, like the EU. 
thanks for the laugh. Hyperbole and laughable on its face. European governments and car makers in collaboration extolled the virtues of diesels for years, lagging FAR behind the u.s. in emissions controls. Then when the 'greens' came to realize their pollution was off the charts, suddenly they wanted to curb (i.e., tax, regulate) and eventually kill diesels and now all fossil fuel engines. If anything vw did them a favor!
And i still think to this day that "dieselgate" was much ado about NOTHING... having an engine programmed to do 'well' on govt tests vs what it can do in the real world just shows that the govt tests are stupid to begin with.
Vw, being #1 or #2 in the world in production volume, knows ICE civilian vehicle production will be banned in a decade or two. And they see tesla's growth. Unlike toyota, they're moving quickly into electric vehicles, not just implementing FUD with mostly hybrids. Has absolutely nothing to do with dieselgate which only a tiny fraction of the public even know about. Didn't mercedes get caught doing this too? Really hurt them (not).
And i still think to this day that "dieselgate" was much ado about NOTHING... having an engine programmed to do 'well' on govt tests vs what it can do in the real world just shows that the govt tests are stupid to begin with.
The reason VW is pushing electrification so hard is to win back the public (and investor) goodwill after Dieselgate. SEC being on their backs won't help them.
05-03-21, 08:00 PM
#96
Lexus Fanatic
Long term it's probably one of the best things to happen to VW it forced them to change course unlike the sloth pace of Toyota.
05-03-21, 08:31 PM
#97
Lexus Test Driver
Much ado about nothing. SEC will fine vw most likely because that's what they do, grab money, like the EU.
thanks for the laugh. Hyperbole and laughable on its face. European governments and car makers in collaboration extolled the virtues of diesels for years, lagging FAR behind the u.s. in emissions controls. Then when the 'greens' came to realize their pollution was off the charts, suddenly they wanted to curb (i.e., tax, regulate) and eventually kill diesels and now all fossil fuel engines. If anything vw did them a favor!
And i still think to this day that "dieselgate" was much ado about NOTHING... having an engine programmed to do 'well' on govt tests vs what it can do in the real world just shows that the govt tests are stupid to begin with.
Vw, being #1 or #2 in the world in production volume, knows ICE civilian vehicle production will be banned in a decade or two. And they see tesla's growth. Unlike toyota, they're moving quickly into electric vehicles, not just implementing FUD with mostly hybrids. Has absolutely nothing to do with dieselgate which only a tiny fraction of the public even know about. Didn't mercedes get caught doing this too? Really hurt them (not).
thanks for the laugh. Hyperbole and laughable on its face. European governments and car makers in collaboration extolled the virtues of diesels for years, lagging FAR behind the u.s. in emissions controls. Then when the 'greens' came to realize their pollution was off the charts, suddenly they wanted to curb (i.e., tax, regulate) and eventually kill diesels and now all fossil fuel engines. If anything vw did them a favor!
And i still think to this day that "dieselgate" was much ado about NOTHING... having an engine programmed to do 'well' on govt tests vs what it can do in the real world just shows that the govt tests are stupid to begin with.
Vw, being #1 or #2 in the world in production volume, knows ICE civilian vehicle production will be banned in a decade or two. And they see tesla's growth. Unlike toyota, they're moving quickly into electric vehicles, not just implementing FUD with mostly hybrids. Has absolutely nothing to do with dieselgate which only a tiny fraction of the public even know about. Didn't mercedes get caught doing this too? Really hurt them (not).
And yes, like it or not, Dieselgate was literally the catalyst for diesel getting almost wiped out in Europe. Because the scandal was so bad that it made diesels unpopular. No government conspiracies going on here like you're trying to peddle.
https://www.jato.com/diesel-car-regi...re-since-2001/
05-03-21, 09:11 PM
#98
Lexus Fanatic
People DIED because of VW and others suffered health problems.
A peer-reviewed study published in Environmental Research Letters estimated that approximately 59 premature deaths will be caused by the excess pollution produced between 2008 and 2015 by vehicles equipped with the defeat device in the United States, the majority due to particulate pollution (87 percent) with the remainder due to ozone (13 percent). The study also found that making these vehicles emissions compliant by the end of 2016 would avert an additional 130 early deaths.[194][193]
Earlier non peer-reviewed studies published in media sources, quoted estimates ranging from 10 to 350 excess deaths in the United States related to the defeat devices based on varying assumptions.[195]
A peer-reviewed study published in Environmental Pollution estimated that the fraudulent emissions would be associated with 45 thousand disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) and a value of life lost of at least 39 billion US dollars.[200]
In June 2016, Axel Friedrich, formerly with the German equivalent of the E.P.A. and a co-founder of the International Council on Clean Transportation stated "It's not just fraud – it's physical assault."[201]
Earlier non peer-reviewed studies published in media sources, quoted estimates ranging from 10 to 350 excess deaths in the United States related to the defeat devices based on varying assumptions.[195]
Non-fatal health impacts
Since NO2 is a precursor to ground-level ozone it may cause respiratory problems "including asthma, bronchitis and emphysema".[196][197][198] Nitrogen oxides amplify the effect of fine particulate matter soot which causes heart problems, a form of air pollution estimated to kill 50,000 in the United States annually.[199]A peer-reviewed study published in Environmental Pollution estimated that the fraudulent emissions would be associated with 45 thousand disability-adjusted life years (DALYs) and a value of life lost of at least 39 billion US dollars.[200]
In June 2016, Axel Friedrich, formerly with the German equivalent of the E.P.A. and a co-founder of the International Council on Clean Transportation stated "It's not just fraud – it's physical assault."[201]
05-04-21, 07:12 AM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
quoting:
so 'science' can show 59 people died sooner than they would have due to factors over 7 years. there's likely more involved if they switched to decaf coffee or had one less scotch a week. 
A peer-reviewed study published in Environmental Research Letters estimated that approximately 59 premature deaths will be caused by the excess pollution produced between 2008 and 2015 by vehicles equipped with the defeat device in the United States
05-04-21, 07:21 AM
#100
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
There's so much denial and factually inaccurate information in this one post that all I'll do is implore you to do your research before making statements as ridiculous as "only a tiny fraction of the public even know about Dieselgate."
And yes, like it or not, Dieselgate was literally the catalyst for diesel getting almost wiped out in Europe. Because the scandal was so bad that it made diesels unpopular. No government conspiracies going on here like you're trying to peddle.
https://www.jato.com/diesel-car-regi...re-since-2001/
And yes, like it or not, Dieselgate was literally the catalyst for diesel getting almost wiped out in Europe. Because the scandal was so bad that it made diesels unpopular. No government conspiracies going on here like you're trying to peddle.
https://www.jato.com/diesel-car-regi...re-since-2001/
i did note this from the stupid article because politicians and well-to-do still wanted to drive whatever they like (hypocrisy knows no bounds):
Diesel has also managed to hold on to its position at the top of the premium brands. Despite the turmoil, it is still the most preferred fuel type for consumers buying Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo and many others. Among the top 10 brands with the highest diesel penetration, 8 of them were premium brands, and diesel counted for more than half of their registrations. In terms of registrations volume, Mercedes and BMW were the second and fourth largest last year.
i have no doubt dieselgate, as the article says, hurt demand for diesels some in europe (not in u.s. as they didn't sell before or after) and then allowed euro politicians to virtue-signal and push for move to EVs asap (since their stupid diesel regs were impossible to comply with but they wouldn't admit that).
but now? yes more in europe will have heard of dieselgate (my family members and friends in uk ALL drive diesels still and i assume they knew about dieselgate but wisely didn't care). in the u.s., i'd bet 90+% people have never heard of it or even if they have, don't care.
05-04-21, 08:56 AM
#101
Lexus Fanatic
What a bizarre hill to chose to die on, defending VW's cheating that resulted in belching out pollution. Cherry on top is claiming a peer reviewed study is not science but some anecdote about drinking coffee is a better data point. I don't know what else to say.
05-04-21, 09:56 AM
#102
Lexus Fanatic
^^^I have to agree with bitkahuna on the last several posts (as I did several years ago, when we first had the Dieselgate thread. I don't see how one can "calculate" an arbitrary set of figures for diesel hydrocarbons, using much of what is assumed data in the first place, and come up wth a definite statement that 59 more people (or any other set figure) would have died of cancer as a result. First of all, it does not take account of new cancer cases where the victim survives. Second, it does not take into account new advances in medicine and anticancer treatments...and there have been some significant ones in the last several years. Third, it does not take into account how any more (or less) people will actually be driving and buying the VW diesels....a four number of them may (?) have already converted to Tesla and/or other BEVs/hybrids.
05-04-21, 10:01 AM
#103
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
and yet somehow you always find something. 
not even sure what we're really arguing about... that 'dieselgate' destroyed the diesel market, or that it destroyed vw? neither is true. vw may have caused european eco-sensitive consumers guilt to buy something else, but there's still MILLIONS of diesel cars in europe (probably the vast majority of all vehicles). but euro govt will finish them off over time by banning ALL fossil fuel vehicles, not just diesels. as for vw, they seem to be doing just fine.
not even sure what we're really arguing about... that 'dieselgate' destroyed the diesel market, or that it destroyed vw? neither is true. vw may have caused european eco-sensitive consumers guilt to buy something else, but there's still MILLIONS of diesel cars in europe (probably the vast majority of all vehicles). but euro govt will finish them off over time by banning ALL fossil fuel vehicles, not just diesels. as for vw, they seem to be doing just fine.
05-04-21, 10:04 AM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
^^^I have to agree with bitkahuna on the last several posts (as I did several years ago, when we first had the Dieselgate thread. I don't see how one can "calculate" an arbitrary set of figures for diesel hydrocarbons, using much of what is assumed data in the first place, and come up wth a definite statement that 59 more people (or any other set figure) would have died of cancer as a result. First of all, it does not take account of new cancer cases where the victim survives. Second, it does not take into account new advances in medicine and anticancer treatments...and there have been some significant ones in the last several years. Third, it does not take into account how any more (or less) people will actually be driving and buying the VW diesels....a four number of them may (?) have already converted to Tesla and/or other BEVs/hybrids.
05-04-21, 10:29 AM
#105
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
here's some 'hard numbers': 