Arbitration Agreement - New Car Purchase
04-01-21, 06:04 AM
#16
Racer
Thread Starter
My father died as a result of the negligence of a nursing home. If I, holding holding his power of attorney, hadn't struck out the arbitration language in the admission agreement, there would have been no litigation over his wrongful death. I seriously doubt the same successful outcome would have been reached in arbitration.
04-01-21, 06:13 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with the sentiment that may be behind this: that these really don't make a difference and rarely come into play. However, in those instances where they do come into play, it may be critical.
My father died as a result of the negligence of a nursing home. If I, holding holding his power of attorney, hadn't struck out the arbitration language in the admission agreement, there would have been no litigation over his wrongful death. I seriously doubt the same successful outcome would have been reached in arbitration.
My father died as a result of the negligence of a nursing home. If I, holding holding his power of attorney, hadn't struck out the arbitration language in the admission agreement, there would have been no litigation over his wrongful death. I seriously doubt the same successful outcome would have been reached in arbitration.
Bottom line is, Kia/the dealership doesn't want to sell you specifically a car bad enough to waive their standard arbitration agreement. They'll just sell it to somebody else. Its not worth the risk. We have arbitration agreements in all of our contracts and if a client won't sign them they cant work with us, bottom line. One piece of business is not worth the risk of opening ourselves up to all of that liability. People who are focused on that are litigious minded in the first place.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-01-21 at 06:18 AM.
04-01-21, 06:21 AM
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
I'm extremely surprised that a nursing home would have struck that language. I'm sure yours was the last one they struck after your lawsuit lol
Bottom line is, Kia doesn't want to sell you specifically a car bad enough to waive their standard arbitration agreement. They'll just sell it to somebody else. Its not worth the risk. We have arbitration agreements in all of our contracts and if a client won't sign them they cant work with us, bottom line. One piece of business is not worth the risk of opening ourselves up to all of that liability. People who are focused on that are litigious minded in the first place.
Bottom line is, Kia doesn't want to sell you specifically a car bad enough to waive their standard arbitration agreement. They'll just sell it to somebody else. Its not worth the risk. We have arbitration agreements in all of our contracts and if a client won't sign them they cant work with us, bottom line. One piece of business is not worth the risk of opening ourselves up to all of that liability. People who are focused on that are litigious minded in the first place.
The arbitration agreement was not a KIA document, it was the dealer's. As mentioned above, the one that my wife signed when we bought the RX last September had bold language directly above her signature line that said whether she signed or not would not impact the purchase or the financing.
Businesses that force such an agreement on their clients are the ones who are litigious minded in the first place. They should be outlawed as against public policy.
04-01-21, 06:59 AM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
Even without arbitration, though, Hyundai and Kia carry what are arguably the best warranties in the American market. Only Mitsubishi, a very minor player in the U.S., can equal it.
04-01-21, 07:13 AM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
LOL, I was able to strike the language in the nursing home admission agreement because his admission took place after hours when the senior administration was gone. Whether it could have happened during normal business hours is unknown, but probably it would have been unlikely.
The arbitration agreement was not a KIA document, it was the dealer's. As mentioned above, the one that my wife signed when we bought the RX last September had bold language directly above her signature line that said whether she signed or not would not impact the purchase or the financing.
Businesses that force such an agreement on their clients are the ones who are litigious minded in the first place. They should be outlawed as against public policy.
Every business has the right to do business the way that works for them, and consumers have the right to choose whether or not they do business with a specific company. If a specific client is really worried about an arbitration agreement and doesnt want to work with us for that reason, and they can find a competitor that will take their business without signing any arbitration language, that competitor can have that client lol. I will drive them there myself.
It's possible that the dealership might also be concerned about the increasing number of Hyundai/Kia engine-fires and their implication.
Even without arbitration, though, Hyundai and Kia carry what are arguably the best warranties in the American market. Only Mitsubishi, a very minor player in the U.S., can equal it.
Even without arbitration, though, Hyundai and Kia carry what are arguably the best warranties in the American market. Only Mitsubishi, a very minor player in the U.S., can equal it.
04-01-21, 01:11 PM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
Every business has the right to do business the way that works for them, and consumers have the right to choose whether or not they do business with a specific company. If a specific client is really worried about an arbitration agreement and doesnt want to work with us for that reason, and they can find a competitor that will take their business without signing any arbitration language, that competitor can have that client lol. I will drive them there myself.
Like I said, every agreement I have includes an arbitration agreement, Lexus, Toyota, Mercedes, Chrysler, Kia....has nothing to do with any one manufacturer.
Like I said, every agreement I have includes an arbitration agreement, Lexus, Toyota, Mercedes, Chrysler, Kia....has nothing to do with any one manufacturer.
They are not inappropriate when the parties have equal bargaining power. An example would be a major league sports provision for binding salary arbitration.
The are particularly odious in new car sales because they are presented at the end of a process where many buyers have already developed an emotional attachment to the vehicle.
Suppose you are slated for a serious medical procedure. You're on the gurney being wheeled into the operating room when the surgeon hands you an arbitration agreement....
04-01-21, 01:21 PM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Just because you sign one doesnt mean that you can't seek legal restitution, theres every likelihood that they won't hold up in court. Just having them though dissuades a lot of lawsuits and thats the point.
Last edited by SW17LS; 04-01-21 at 01:24 PM.
04-01-21, 01:41 PM
#23
Racer
Thread Starter
04-01-21, 03:25 PM
#24
Lexus Fanatic
04-01-21, 06:41 PM
#25
This is interesting. Make me went back to look at my Volvo lease contract. It does have this "arbitration clause" section on the last page, and Volvo did offer the option to opt-out within 30 days. It not a separate contract, just part of the whole leasing agreement.
I guess you can still sign it to get the car first and then opt-out as you wish.
I guess you can still sign it to get the car first and then opt-out as you wish.
04-02-21, 10:10 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Many dealers require their own arbitration agreement these days, however there are some that still don't.
Separate from that, most finance and lease contracts have their own arbitration agreement provisions built into the contracts too for the banks. If you financed or leased the car, even if you had declined the dealership's provision, you still would have been required to sign the bank's.
Separate from that, most finance and lease contracts have their own arbitration agreement provisions built into the contracts too for the banks. If you financed or leased the car, even if you had declined the dealership's provision, you still would have been required to sign the bank's.
04-02-21, 11:18 AM
#27
Racer
Thread Starter
The loan would have been through KIA's financing arm. We didn't get that far, so I don't know what, if any, such provision, their promissory note contained.
04-02-21, 11:19 AM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
I looked at my paperwork from Kia...its in there.
04-02-21, 05:33 PM
#29
Lexus Champion
The nursing home is way more eager to get that business than the car dealer. Car dealer makes a few hundred dollars of profit; nursing home makes thousands and thousands of dollars from insurance and medicare payments.
04-02-21, 05:35 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
Not likely. These provisions have been around for decades, and have stood up in court time and time again. These companies know exactly what they are doing. And in most cases, it's a paragraph buried in some agreement, and no a separate agreement to sign.