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Arbitration Agreement - New Car Purchase

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Old 04-03-21, 12:45 PM
  #46  
mmarshall
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
. You can complain to your state attorney general etc.
Yeah.....the State AG is going to drop whatever he or she is doing, juts like that, and put your case on the front burner. In most cases, one will be lucky if they can navigate through the bureaucracy and get up to three or four levels below that, and then wait forever for a response.
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Old 04-03-21, 12:51 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Yeah.....the State AG is going to drop whatever he or she is doing, juts like that, and put your case on the front burner. In most cases, one will be lucky if they can navigate through the bureaucracy and get up to three or four levels below that, and then wait forever for a response.
Mike, you do realize that’s what your state office of the attorney general is for right? It’s not a person...it’s an office. They literally exist for this reason.
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Old 04-03-21, 01:00 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Yeah.....the State AG is going to drop whatever he or she is doing, juts like that, and put your case on the front burner. In most cases, one will be lucky if they can navigate through the bureaucracy and get up to three or four levels below that, and then wait forever for a response.
Well, no, of course not. The AG doesn't act as your personal attorney.

But if a business is acting illegally towards many people repetitively, yes, they will investigate--they are obligated to do so. The PA AG has an online web page to report suspected activity; I've used it, and I always get a response from them .... usually that there's nothing they can do (for example, they have a page for reporting violations of the "Do Not Call" list, which, due to technology, they usually can't pinpoint a violator).

Here's the complaint page. It could not be easier: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/submit-a-complaint/

The Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General receives more than 50,000 complaints and referrals each year, which allows us to fight on your behalf. You can submit a complaint online or by printing out and sending a form into our office. The more information you provide, the better we can help you.

Last edited by tex2670; 04-03-21 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 04-03-21, 01:13 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Mike, you do realize that’s what your state office of the attorney general is for right? It’s not a person...it’s an office. They literally exist for this reason.
True...at least on paper, but I was refering to what to people often go through in real life, in the bureaucracy.
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Old 04-03-21, 01:29 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
True...at least on paper, but I was refering to what to people often go through in real life, in the bureaucracy.
Right.....
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Old 04-07-21, 09:32 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Pulled up my paperwork, every one has an arbitration agreement.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
I don’t agree. It was just a standard document everybody signs and the finance guy had no idea you would react that way since nobody else does.

The bottom line is if you won’t sign an arbitration agreement you’re not buying a car based on all the purchase agreements I’ve signed in the last 10 years.
I'm prerty sure I've had the same experience. It's done in the finance office not with sales.
it'd not a bait and switch tactic....its a used car norm (I thought). Now they made me sign this thing which I believe waives state law saying sold as-is and no 72hr period to return. I think in CA unless you sign otherwise you have 72 hrs....that may be old news but pretty sure I had a waiver last car purchase.

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Old 04-07-21, 10:49 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by TriC
So, I made a deal today to buy a 2022 Kia Carnival EX, a nice car that's good value, especially at a discount. However, the deal collapsed in the finance office when I refused to sign an arbitration agreement that the dealer wouldn't sell without it.

Have you come across such a document when buying new?
This is due to the fact that there was a fire issue with the Kia and they refused to do the recall their response to owners was literally if your car catches fire let us know. So by sign that agreement just saying you won’t sue the company for your car exploding at the flames and burning your house down while you sleep! I agree it’s a great call for the money and it’s a shame that instead of doing the right thing and fixing the car they have now just printed an arbitration denial letter
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Old 04-07-21, 10:51 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Crocetti
This is due to the fact that there was a fire issue with the Kia and they refused to do the recall their response to owners was literally if your car catches fire let us know. So by sign that agreement just saying you won’t sue the company for your car exploding at the flames and burning your house down while you sleep! I agree it’s a great call for the money and it’s a shame that instead of doing the right thing and fixing the car they have now just printed an arbitration denial letter
As was said above in the thread, this has nothing to do with that...its a standard part of most new car purchases
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Old 04-07-21, 11:07 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Crocetti
This is due to the fact that there was a fire issue with the Kia and they refused to do the recall their response to owners was literally if your car catches fire let us know. So by sign that agreement just saying you won’t sue the company for your car exploding at the flames and burning your house down while you sleep! I agree it’s a great call for the money and it’s a shame that instead of doing the right thing and fixing the car they have now just printed an arbitration denial letter
it is literally nothing to do with that and this is simply misinformation anyone here can safely ignore.
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Old 04-07-21, 11:32 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by HOMER350
I'm prerty sure I've had the same experience. It's done in the finance office not with sales.
it'd not a bait and switch tactic....its a used car norm (I thought). Now they made me sign this thing which I believe waives state law saying sold as-is and no 72hr period to return. I think in CA unless you sign otherwise you have 72 hrs....that may be old news but pretty sure I had a waiver last car purchase.
CA does not have a cooling off period. You can purchase a 2-day contract cancellation option if you want.

THERE IS NO COOLING-OFF PERIOD UNLESS YOU OBTAIN A CONTRACT CANCELLATION OPTION

California law does not provide for a “cooling-off” or other cancellation period for vehicle lease or purchase contracts. Therefore, you cannot later cancel such a contract simply because you change your mind, decide the vehicle costs too much, or wish you had acquired a different vehicle. After you sign a motor vehicle purchase or lease contract, it may only be canceled with the agreement of the seller or lessor or for legal cause, such as fraud.

However, California law does require a seller to offer a 2-day contract cancellation option on used vehicles with a purchase price of less than $40,000, subject to certain statutory conditions. This contract cancellation option requirement does not apply to the sale of a recreational vehicle, a motorcycle, or an off-highway motor vehicle subject to identification under California law. See the vehicle contract cancellation option agreement for details.
https://www.mountainviewchevrolet.co...rent%20vehicle.
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Old 04-07-21, 11:35 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
What is an arbitration agreement?
Arbitration Agreement is agreement that any dispute with other party will be resolved by one or as many as three persons unrelated to either party OUT OF COURT...no lawsuit allowed. Can have provision for who pays the arbitrator.
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Old 04-07-21, 03:28 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by TriC
So, I made a deal today to buy a 2022 Kia Carnival EX, a nice car that's good value, especially at a discount. However, the deal collapsed in the finance office when I refused to sign an arbitration agreement that the dealer wouldn't sell without it.

Have you come across such a document when buying new?
A friend was hospitalized because of treatment by a physician (whose state license was later removed). He was precluded from suing because he'd signed the arbitration clause. The arbitrator awarded him a pittance of what he'd almost surely obtained in court. Since then, I don't sign anything with an arbitration restriction. Virtually all consumer organizations advise not to sign them, such as:
The Consumer Voice for Quality Long-term Care published this list of all the reasons NOT to agree to pre-arbitration:
  1. A private arbitrator, instead of a judge, decides the outcome of a dispute
  1. There is no jury
  2. Arbitration does not have to follow the rules of evidence and can introduce hearsay evidence.
  1. Decisions are always final, barring extraordinary circumstances, so you cannot appeal a decision you disagree with
  1. Decisions are almost always confidential, so the record of wrongdoing remains secret
  1. Arbitration is a business. Arbitrators have a financial incentive to find [in favor of] the business in the hope it will give the arbitrator more business in the future. This hugely disadvantages consumers.
  1. Arbitration can be more expensive than a lawsuit in court.

You have a right to refuse pre-arbitration .

Also, from elsewhere:Arbitration agreements are almost always signed at the beginning. This means you must sign away your right to bring a lawsuit before you have any idea what issues might need to be resolved in the future.

Unlike a court case, there are far fewer requirements when it comes to disclosure, or the exchange of information, between the parties in the dispute.

You might be barred from certain recoveries that are available in court.
You can always shop around to find another company that offers the same products and services without mandated arbitration. Most people have never filed a lawsuit, but everyone should have the option to do so.

It’s instructive that auto dealer associations spent millions lobbying against a proposed law that would have required them to sign arbitration agreements with auto manufacturers. (The dealers succeeded.)
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Old 04-07-21, 04:28 PM
  #58  
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The bottom line is if you flat refuse to sign arbitration agreements you’re not going to be able to do business with most companies, and they are becoming more and more common.
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Old 04-07-21, 05:34 PM
  #59  
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You are correct to avoid ANY arbitration agreement. BUT - not certain you will be able to find another vehicle without capitulating. Here is exactly what Consumer Reports has to say"Arbitration, in some cases, can be a good option for consumers, provided they understand the trade-offs and can deliberately choose arbitration over the court system after a dispute arises, says CR’s Slover. What advocates object to is requiring consumers to agree to arbitra*tion before buying a product or service, and long before a dispute has arisen.

The federal Forced Arbitration Injustice Repeal (FAIR) Act, passed by the House in September 2019 and now in the Senate, would ban predispute forced arbitration, including provisions that prevent people from joining class actions. In the meantime, is there anything you can do? It’s not always easy, but here are some steps to try:

Check to see whether companies use arbitration. Though this information is often buried, CR has done the hard work for you for some popular products. In other cases, look for arbitration language on your own. The clauses often lurk in links at the bottom of a company’s website under headings such as “terms of use” or “legal terms and conditions.” Search for “arbitration” and “dispute” using the “find” function. Also check the user agreements that most of us agree to when we purchase a product online or otherwise interact with a company’s digital offerings.

Don’t let down your guard when shopping offline, either. Companies put arbitration clauses in owner’s manuals and warranty materials, and on the product packaging itself.

Try to choose products from companies that don’t use arbitration. If you’re choosing between two products similar in quality and price, use arbitration as a tiebreaker. For example, Evenflo and Graco both offer top-rated convertible child car seats for about $100*—but Graco’s come with a mandatory arbitration clause. (The company did not respond when asked why it has that provision while most other car-seat makers that we looked at don’t.)

Opt out when you can. Some companies allow consumers to opt out of arbitration, such as the mattress maker Simmons Beautyrest. But act fast and read the instructions carefully. Companies often require you to take the step within 30 days of purchase and to use specific language.

Complain. Use social media to contact the CEO, customer service, and other consumers. In a handful of cases, doing so prompted companies to reverse course on arbitration. For example, in 2014 food giant General Mills dropped arbitration requirements that the company said applied even to people who simply downloaded coupons, after a wave of consumer outrage and media coverage. “We’ve listened,” the company wrote in a blog post in April of that year. “And we’re changing our legal terms back.”

Negotiate using the legal leverage you have. If you have a dispute and find you’re bound by an arbitration clause, know that many companies try to settle disputes informally before beginning arbitration or defending small claims cases in court. In fact, some companies may make an offer before you begin legal action.
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Old 04-29-21, 12:46 PM
  #60  
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(To bring this topic full circle) I signed the papers this week for the purchase of a new minivan (details of which may be spelled out in a separate thread). This was done long-distance with an out of state multi-line small town dealer. They sent all the papers FedEx and they were returned the same way. Two things were notable:

1) It was so very nice not to have to sit in a finance office as there was no pitch for an extended warranty or any other such extras; and

2) There was no arbitration agreement presented.
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