Sharris868

I understand. We'll go with your expert opinion instead.

Wilson2000

How dare you bring facts to the table! There appears to be an anti-intellectual bias in discussions like this, and prevalent in all American discourse these days. I appreciated your link and saw value in it, so thanks for sharing!

EZZ

Nothing valuable in actual research papers. Youtube videos are all we need...

avhart

As long as the YouTube videos are by Scottie Kilmer then - YA!

Fake news is everywhere...is Harvard (of all places) immune?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i guess you can understand this drivel from the abstract.

so this "EV Subsidy" is the author's calculated amount that EVs are 'better' for society than ICE cars having 80mpg or 25.4mpg. I think.
is that amount over the life of the vehicle, or per year?
but then the author uses "federal subsidy" instead of EV subsidy which is where it lost me.

and this is more about renewable energy than EVs, i think. Comparing 2016 renewable usage vs if we had 100% renewables somehow.

It's all over the map.

edit: reading further into the 'introduction' it seems comparisons are based on 150K mi. of driving with EV and ICE vehicles.

the introduction is much more readable (to me) than that abstract. again, the piece is mostly about pushing for clean energy PRODUCTION and not as much about EVs themselves.

i personally HATE landscapes littered with giant windmills. this country is literally insane for having abandoned nuclear and made it basically impossible to get a new one put into operation.
france is all nuclear and sells tons of energy to its neighbors too.

SW17LS

Wait,you're talking about something from Scotty? lol

mocanu

I own an old Tesla model S with a lot of miles on it. I also own a NX200T and SC430. For commuting nothing beats an EV. Electricity is cheap here in NC so I get at least 30 miles on $1 of electricity (actual driving, an EV uses electricity when it's not being used so my electricity usage is a little more than that). For trips it depends. If you have to pay for supercharging then a high mpg ICE is the way to go. If you're off the major routes then ICE is most likely better. However, if you happen to have an EV that gets free supercharging then it pays to put up with a little inconvenience. The stops do extend your trip but I have found that it's actually nice to break up a long drive. EV is the future and like him or not, Musk is pushing everyone into the future and not just with EV's. He's pushing cleaner energy which will eventually be cheaper and more abundant.

As for recycling, old Tesla batteries can be used for electrical storage in the battery farms that Tesla builds.

The carbon credits have given Tesla what they need to build themselves into what should be a major automotive company that will pull the old guard into the future. Do you think that the major auto manufactures would be committing to EV's like they are if it wasn't for Tesla?

Scotty is an entertainer that makes a boat load of money. Much of what he says is extremely useful to many people but if you look at his titles they're usually click bait. He's not really a fan of EV's and it shows through his selective use of facts. I watch a lot of his videos. I enjoy them and have learned from them but you have to take his rants with a grain of salt.

BTW, I'm not a tree hugger. I drove one of the early Prius but I had a bumper sticker on it, Drill Baby Drill. I've owned 5 Prius (Priuses Prii whatever the plural is) because they save gas, are comfortable even on long trips, last a looooong time with almost no problems, and they're much larger inside then people think.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

mocanu thanks for your great post.

not sure how you could drive various priuses though (especially compared to your other cars), i just found them awful to drive.

mmarshall

Our own PC culture is pushing much of the conversion to BEVs, but, I agree, Tesla did a lot to help pave the way. They set what was basically an industry-standard on the efficiency of BEV electric motors and batteries.


Do you agree with me that the 2Gen version of the Prius was the best? IMO, it seemed the most solidly-built version, used the best materials, and avoided the excessively-chiseled/Alien-look of the current one. Yes, it drove like a drunken turtle, especially in stop-and-go traffic, but that's been more or less the case with the Prius since its conception, as part of the price one paid for the extreme efficiency. The Prius C, smallest of the Prius models, seems to have the most conventional and least-quirky dash and interior, but seems cheaply built with flimsy materials. In fact, I noticed a major lightening/thinning of the assembly-materials from the 2Gen to the 3 Gen version...perhaps the largest drop in the car's history.

mocanu

The Prius was before my current vehicles and I probably couldn't go back. I did like both the 2nd and 3rd generations of the Prius. I know someone who has 728k miles on their 2nd gen Prius. Two of mine were plug-in and at times I would get over 1000 miles on a tank of gas. That's what really started my desire to go all electric. Finally got a steal of a deal on a used Tesla. Recently purchased the SC430 because I always wanted a hard top convertible. My son has a 2nd gen Prius and my daughter has a 3rd.

I have always wanted to go solar but in NC it just doesn't make any sense. No environmentalist here, as in putting nature before human beings. However, human beings do have a responsibility to take care of our planet. If I remember correctly after 911 the grounding of all flights for just 4 days produced a measurable decrease in pollution. Manufacturing an EV may not be environment friendly but neither is producing an ICE. However, the EV will last longer and produce less pollution than the ICE (even if your electricity comes from coal) and will have no pollution if you're using solar to charge it. One day cars will get much of the energy they use from the solar roof they'll have but that's still a ways away given that our technology isn't efficient enough yet. It's coming and will come faster as more manufactures move to EV's. Musk is helping that to become a reality. You don't have to like the man to be able to respect what he's doing.

I love my Tesla. It's so much fun to drive and it saves on my fuel bill as well as on my maintenance bill. They do have their drawbacks but that should change in time.

Again, Scotty is mostly correct but he's leaving out a lot of facts in order to present what he wants to present. Kind of like what a lot of people like to do!

SW17LS

I had a gen II Prius. Awful car.

I completely disagree that “PC culture” has anything to do with the popularity of Tesla’s.

LeX2K

I'd say the green aspect of Tesla is a bonus not a deciding factor. People love the tech, the look, the speed and of course the efficiency. Prius was a green statement car for sure and it did save billions of gallons of fuel if every vehicle was as efficient auto emissions would be cut in half.

EZZ

I think the enthusiasts are what you are describing. There are a lot of green people that switched to Tesla from Prius so their main objective may have been to be green. Tesla ownership is pretty diverse and its made up of the former Prius owners, luxury car converts, and mainstream Camcord owners looking to get into BEV. I mainly switched due to performance and cost. Its the cheapest ownership experience i've ever had....and the 0-60 in 3 seconds doesn't hurt

Wilson2000

The US produces more energy from nuclear than any other nation. France is second with less than half the amount of the US. I want to like nuclear energy, but thus far, it is only a band-aid solution to our energy issues. When all the existing plants reach the end of their lifespan and need to be decommissioned and dismantled, there is no solution for where to store the waste. It needs to be sequestered for 240,000 years, so it seems we are kicking an impossible problem down the road for future generations, which hardly seems fair. Even putting the waste dilemma aside, studies have shown nuclear power to be too expensive and too slow to build, in order to address the climate crisis.

I agree that windmills are ugly. Solar isn't much better. But each form of energy generation has its own ugliness and drawbacks. Pick your poison! Would you want to live next to a nuclear plant after what we've seen happen in Chernobyl and Fukushima?

Wilson2000

You can't have it all...ride, comfort, performance, and 50 mpg! My poolcar fleet at work had several gen 1 and 2 Prius cars in it. I hated the gen 1, especially on out of town trips. The gen 2 was a major improvement, but one cannot compare them to non-hybrids. Both the gen 1's and 2's were exceptionally reliable and fuel efficient, making them extremely inexpensive to own and operate. If that's the criteria one's looking for, it's an exceptional (not "awful") car.