Och

iTrader: (3)

Moot points. There have always been better quality 18650 from companies like Panasonic, AW, Tenergy, as well as a bunch of cheap chinese junk such as Ultrafire with ridiculous capacity claims. Good 18650 batteries have a built in protection board that prevents overcharging so they don't explode. Chargers are equally important, you want a smart charger that analyzes battery status, and charges it fast, slow, or trickle charge. I have a bunch of quality 18650 batteries for my flashlights and a Pila IBC charger that predate Tesla.

I am not saying that Tesla hasn't contributed at all to battery tech, but certainly nothing revolutionary. I stand by my statement that their battery pack can be built in a shed, and not an issue at all for any major automaker.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Here, a great read on the 18650s.

https://www.fenix-store.com/blog/the...650-batteries/

EZZ

The Tesla screen is class leading in response and ease of use. It has to be as it's the only way to communicate with the car. I'm really not a fan of iDrive. Waaay laggier than the Tesla system.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Thats just your biased opinion, the Teslas infotainment is awful and clearly a cost cutting measure. It's very gimmicky bloated with all kinds of nonsense, but it sucks for essential controls.

EZZ

Read any review of the UI and actual use and it wipes the floor with the BMW system. My iPad Pro is about as fast as that Tesla screen and the BMW feels ancient relatively. It may have cut costs in terms of lack of physical buttons, but Tesla's software team is easily the best in auto.

Also, Tesla's battery is mostly from Panasonic until the 4680 cell comes out which is Tesla tech. Tesla's contribution is the advanced motors and battery systems which enables their batteries to last 300-500k miles. All the other OEM batteries prior to Tesla would become junk in the first 100k. Tesla taught the entire industry how to do a battery system right and you see many many examples of older Teslas easily surpassing 300k miles with heavy use. Battery management systems are all software based and Japan pretty much admitted they were at least 5 years behind in that type of technology. Germans aren't close either...they choose to add gigantic batteries to compensate and they still get lousy efficiency and range.

Toys4RJill

I liked the Tesla system. I don’t think all the functions should be integrated but ease of use was pretty cool. Some really neat features too.

Och

iTrader: (3)

LOL, maybe you're comparing it to the original iDrive from 2002. Responsiveness wise I don't think there are laggy systems anymore from any manufacturer, but function wise the Tesla is a horrible compromise due to lack of physical controls.

Li-ion Batteries don't last based on mileage, it's mostly charge cycles and temperature range. Smart charging of Li-Ion batteries has also been a thing way before Tesla existed, battery management isn't that complicated. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary that Tesla has contributed to battery tech.

LeX2K

On Tesla's order page they are showing delivery at 5-8 weeks which tends to lag actual, reports are all Q2 production is already spoken for. Green or not, Tesla can't make em fast enough.

EZZ

So the Japanese and Germans are just incompetent because they can't catch Tesla and their technology. Really doesn't add up. Tesla and Panasonic have been changing their battery chemistry for years and have you noticed the mileage going up dramatically? Tesla is at 400 miles with a 100kwh battery now. They also recently added density going from 75kwh to 82kwh in the same package and volume with the Model 3. They also use significantly lower cobalt as a ratio and their performance has even gone up in terms of charging speed and range. Just because you believe they haven't added set new bars in battery and BMS technology just means you don't understand the tech.

LeX2K

Panasonic and Tesla have an interesting history. Tesla was very smart to partner up with Panasonic which has always produced some of the best of not the best cells. Where it gets interesting is at one point Panasonic was very unhappy with their partnership this was when Tesla sales were low and as a result the investment was not being realized. That concern turned into Panasonic now being very happy with their agreement. Hard to say what expertise Panasonic is allowed to use for products outside of Tesla, but the collaboration has been excellent they keep improving and refining the chemistry. The big win for Tesla is cost reduction they are at about 20% per KWh cheaper than anyone else.

The actual chemistry is a trade secret but it is optimized and refined for automotive use, what you get in a mobile device is much different which prioritizes density and charging speed, longevity is last on the list of concerns.

Och

iTrader: (3)

You are just bickering at this point. Manufacturers have been tweaking Li-Ion battery tech constantly, for instance a typical 18650 from 10 years ago had a capacity of 2400-2800 mAh, and today it's usually3600 mAh. Once again, an engineering student in a shed could purchase a bunch of good quality of 18650s and assemble a battery pack 90% as efficient as Teslas. There is simply nothing special about it, and it's foolish to think that major auto makers couldn't get it done.

SW17LS

Sure you can…now. But back then the gas mileage was certainly revolutionary. There were a lot of things they could have done with the Prius though to make it a better car to drive while preserving its fuel mileage.

sdls

The interior quality of the Prius is 90s GM bad.

EZZ

You're failing to see the point. Tesla's contribution isn't just about battery chemistry but the advancement of the battery management system and motors to extract maximum efficiency, range, and reliability out of the batteries. At least one of these is true...what Tesla did is hard to do because their technology is innovative or the OEMs are just incompetent and pretty pathetic at building anything but an engine, because its been at least 5 years for them to react and their still trying to catch up. I personally gave OEMs the benefit of the doubt but if you don't agree, then we can agree to disagree.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Battery management isn't new or hard, but it can be cost prohibitive because eventually you reach the point of diminishing returns. Ideally in a battery pack each battery would have its own board that monitors the battery temperature, charge state, cycle count, and controls the rate at which its being charger or discharged. Obviously the pack should be heated/cooled to keep the batteries in the optimal temperature range. None of this is difficult, and to claim that major OEMs are incompetent and can't design a similar battery pack is delusional. I don't know what's preventing them from doing so, perhaps Tesla is getting government subsidies that others are not, or maybe they are deliberately being held back. Again, it just doesn't make sense for them to buy carbon credits from Tesla when they are perfectly capable of building their own EVs, and have demonstrated their ability with cars like the Leaf, 500e, Focus EV, and so on.