Toyota bZ4X and Subaru Solterra
03-18-22, 06:05 PM
#181
Lexus Champion
Charging times are big issue across the electric battery segment. I don’t believe there is any future in charging at a charging station. So many problems for adoption. I believe that battery EVs are in a bubble (right now) and will come back to earth at some point. For those who want to charge at home, it makes a lot of sense..but for travelling, it just doesn’t work. Same with those who have no garage. . I’d expect Toyota’s to last a very long long time and charging at fast charging stations just accelerates battery problems. I know you defend BEVs with a strong passion, but it is really hard to get a word/opinion in sometimes. I just don’t really care for BEVs, this Toyota as well. But I like the side profile and I really want to see if this Toyota has mechanical perfection, like all of my Toyota’s in the past. I’m also interested in watching how Toyota markets their BEVs. Have a good night.
BTW, I've not had any charging issues yet. Zero
03-18-22, 08:21 PM
#182
Lexus Test Driver
C&D review of the Solterra. Read the comments to see what others think of this. 
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...olterra-drive/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...olterra-drive/
2023 Subaru Solterra: EV Meets ORV
With the new Solterra, Subaru brings some off-road cred to the mainstream EV segment.
03-18-22, 10:47 PM
#183
I don't believe that lack of 30 minute, 20 minute, 15 minute, 10 minute, or even 5 minute charging is a big issue for bZ nor Solterra.
Although lack of hi speed charging may be an issue for the Lexus RZ450e and the 2025 Lexus IS BEV - especially flagship versions of those models.
For an entry level Toyota or Subaru, 0-80% charge in 1 hour is fine.
One of the Toyota engineers or PR man was saying that TMC will start from the bottom, and make their way up - increasing battery pack size, performance, range and charging.
Hence TMC did indeed start with the Toyota C-HR & Lexus UX300e EV's on ICEV-based GA-B platform.
Then they moved to this Toyota bZ/Subaru Solterra on e-TNGA/e-SGP e-Subaru Global Platform.
Tesla the modern day EV pioneer obviously has the head start.
Beyond that, Polestar 2 and BMW i4 have a "quickie" via ICEV-based platforms, while something like the 2025 4IS BEV takes the long route to EV's with a proper dedicated EV platform, but not released till 2025.
The RZ450e gets the dedicated e-TNGA before the 2025 Lexus 4IS BEV on the premises that SUV's sell better than sedans.
Last edited by peteharvey; 03-18-22 at 11:03 PM.
03-18-22, 11:15 PM
#184
Speaks French in Russian
Theres no excitement in these reviews at all. The car is just.... present. Pretty lame entry in my opinion. Low Range and slow charge rate, at an estimated price none to better than the competition. And it's ugly. This is a very hard pass for me.
03-18-22, 11:17 PM
#185
Lexus Fanatic
03-18-22, 11:25 PM
#186
It is a compromise between TMC's less well developed EV line and TMC's superior chassis design and build.
03-19-22, 12:51 AM
#187
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by peteharvey
I agree with Jill.
I don't believe that lack of 30 minute, 20 minute, 15 minute, 10 minute, or even 5 minute charging is a big issue for bZ nor Solterra.
Although lack of hi speed charging may be an issue for the Lexus RZ450e and the 2025 Lexus IS BEV - especially flagship versions of those models.
For an entry level Toyota or Subaru, 0-80% charge in 1 hour is fine.
One of the Toyota engineers or PR man was saying that TMC will start from the bottom, and make their way up - increasing battery pack size, performance, range and charging.
Hence TMC did indeed start with the Toyota C-HR & Lexus UX300e EV's on ICEV-based GA-B platform.
Then they moved to this Toyota bZ/Subaru Solterra on e-TNGA/e-SGP e-Subaru Global Platform.
Tesla the modern day EV pioneer obviously has the head start.
Beyond that, Polestar 2 and BMW i4 have a "quickie" via ICEV-based platforms, while something like the 2025 4IS BEV takes the long route to EV's with a proper dedicated EV platform, but not released till 2025.
The RZ450e gets the dedicated e-TNGA before the 2025 Lexus 4IS BEV on the premises that SUV's sell better than sedans.
I don't believe that lack of 30 minute, 20 minute, 15 minute, 10 minute, or even 5 minute charging is a big issue for bZ nor Solterra.
Although lack of hi speed charging may be an issue for the Lexus RZ450e and the 2025 Lexus IS BEV - especially flagship versions of those models.
For an entry level Toyota or Subaru, 0-80% charge in 1 hour is fine.
One of the Toyota engineers or PR man was saying that TMC will start from the bottom, and make their way up - increasing battery pack size, performance, range and charging.
Hence TMC did indeed start with the Toyota C-HR & Lexus UX300e EV's on ICEV-based GA-B platform.
Then they moved to this Toyota bZ/Subaru Solterra on e-TNGA/e-SGP e-Subaru Global Platform.
Tesla the modern day EV pioneer obviously has the head start.
Beyond that, Polestar 2 and BMW i4 have a "quickie" via ICEV-based platforms, while something like the 2025 4IS BEV takes the long route to EV's with a proper dedicated EV platform, but not released till 2025.
The RZ450e gets the dedicated e-TNGA before the 2025 Lexus 4IS BEV on the premises that SUV's sell better than sedans.
03-19-22, 04:40 AM
#189
However, TMC will add bigger battery packs progressively to the range.
Above all, TMC is not really focusing on developing traditional lithium ion battery packs, but bypassing lithium ion for solid state batteries.
03-19-22, 04:59 AM
#190
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03-19-22, 05:14 AM
#192
They start with small battery packs first, adding bigger packs to the range later.
TMC knows they can’t be everything to everyone.
TMC either quickly gets an ICEV-based EV onto the market like the Polestar 2 or BMW i4 etc, or they take a bit longer to get a dedicated EV chassis 2025 IS BEV onto the market.
Likewise, TMC either follows the Tesla route to focus on developing lithium ion batteries for the present, or alternatively, to stop-gap current lithium ion battery technology, but focus on the next generation of solid state batteries.
TMC's strategy seems to be short term pain, but long term gain.
If TMC focus on ICEV's or ICEV-based chassis like C-HR EV & UX300e EV, or focus heavily in lithium ion battery development, then TMC will have short term gain, with long term pain.
Life is a compromize - the more we have of A, the less we have of B.
Notice how Benz built compact EQC on ICEV-based MRA platform?
Meanwhile, their more premium midsize EQE and full size EQS are both built on dedicated EVA platforms.
TMC's strategy is for ICEV-based EV's to be limited to subcompact UX300e only.
Benz and Beamer are happy to base their compact EQC & i4 on ICEV chassis to get a compromized product onto the market faster.
TMC is also willing to compromize Lion battery development for solid state battery development.
TMC can probably do so because they have hybrids.
Last edited by peteharvey; 03-19-22 at 06:10 AM.
03-19-22, 05:37 AM
#193
Lexus Fanatic
Sad. It is not very good. But now in the modern era, going green costs you extra, you want more range, fork over more $$$. 700lb roof weight capacity, what happens to range when you load up with gear and barrel down the highway to the campsite....
Toyota will debut it hybrids. I doubt BEVs will have solid state until 2030 and it will be very expensive
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 03-19-22 at 05:47 AM.
03-19-22, 08:29 AM
#194
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, the bZ is a product where the EV driveline is 10 years behind, but the chassis design and manufacture is 10 years ahead of Tesla.
However, TMC will add bigger battery packs progressively to the range.
Above all, TMC is not really focusing on developing traditional lithium ion battery packs, but bypassing lithium ion for solid state batteries.
However, TMC will add bigger battery packs progressively to the range.
Above all, TMC is not really focusing on developing traditional lithium ion battery packs, but bypassing lithium ion for solid state batteries.
03-19-22, 09:13 AM
#195
Where do you get the 10 years behind figure? Chassis design at Tesla is improving rapidly and they will have an industry first megacasting on their new facility in Austin. Doesn't sound like its 10 years behind. Also, chassis design is a broad term...what are you basing this on. If its performance, nothing Lexus/Toyota makes is that sporty and Tesla's performance models handle wonderfully. They will also have a structural battery chassis which an industry first. Don't see how Toyota has anything this advanced right now. At this point, the only advantage from Toyota is their scale and QA. Only areas Toyota is ahead of everyone is hybrid and fuel cell and manufacturing QA.
Look at the manufacturing and build quality of the chassis?