Toyota bZ4X and Subaru Solterra
04-12-22, 12:18 PM
#256
04-12-22, 12:35 PM
#257
Lexus Fanatic
04-12-22, 01:12 PM
#258
If I’m not wrong, the FWD’s batteries come from Panasonic, hence faster charging.
While the AWD batteries comes probably from China, hence slower charging.
Like most EV’s, shortage of rare earth lithium and cobalt will result in high prices and huge waiting lists, and no choice but to source batteries from China.
Base model probably went FWD for easier driving with understeer, as opposed to trickier driving with RWD and the tail sliding out in oversteer turning into a corner.
Will be interesting to see if bZ has front cheap single lower link MacPherson struts, or front double wishbones to help keep tires near perpendicular to road to maximise grip.
While the AWD batteries comes probably from China, hence slower charging.
Like most EV’s, shortage of rare earth lithium and cobalt will result in high prices and huge waiting lists, and no choice but to source batteries from China.
Base model probably went FWD for easier driving with understeer, as opposed to trickier driving with RWD and the tail sliding out in oversteer turning into a corner.
Will be interesting to see if bZ has front cheap single lower link MacPherson struts, or front double wishbones to help keep tires near perpendicular to road to maximise grip.
Last edited by peteharvey; 04-12-22 at 02:24 PM.
04-12-22, 04:11 PM
#259
If I’m not wrong, the FWD’s batteries come from Panasonic, hence faster charging.
While the AWD batteries comes probably from China, hence slower charging.
Like most EV’s, shortage of rare earth lithium and cobalt will result in high prices and huge waiting lists, and no choice but to source batteries from China.
Base model probably went FWD for easier driving with understeer, as opposed to trickier driving with RWD and the tail sliding out in oversteer turning into a corner.
Will be interesting to see if bZ has front cheap single lower link MacPherson struts, or front double wishbones to help keep tires near perpendicular to road to maximise grip.
While the AWD batteries comes probably from China, hence slower charging.
Like most EV’s, shortage of rare earth lithium and cobalt will result in high prices and huge waiting lists, and no choice but to source batteries from China.
Base model probably went FWD for easier driving with understeer, as opposed to trickier driving with RWD and the tail sliding out in oversteer turning into a corner.
Will be interesting to see if bZ has front cheap single lower link MacPherson struts, or front double wishbones to help keep tires near perpendicular to road to maximise grip.
Last edited by Tritonal; 04-12-22 at 04:17 PM.
04-12-22, 04:22 PM
#260
Lexus Fanatic
Plenty of EVs that have good charging times using batteries not from Panasonic. Toyota is probably left to take the scraps since other companies have been inking battery contracts for years.
04-12-22, 04:52 PM
#261
You're right, it looks like the battery pack for the AWD model is from CATL and FWD is from Panasonic. I'm assuming if the AWD had a battery pack from Panasonic, the max output would be 150 kWh as well. Hopefully they give the RZ 450e a battery pack from Panasonic and a stronger motor..
04-12-22, 05:31 PM
#262
Intermediate
"First off, by quick-take indications on my early drive, across three vehicles, the BZ4X has got it going on with respect to efficiency.
Toyota anticipates that the single-motor version earns 119 MPGe combined--better than any version of the Hyundai loniq 5 or
Kia EV6 (117 MPGe at best) and its efficiency-focused e-GMP platform, and only bested by the Tesla Model Y, at 122 MPGe."
"I split the drive into three portions over the course of several hours--first an all-wheel-drive XLE, followed by a front-wheel-drive
XLE, and finally an all-wheel-drive Limited. I put roughly 30 miles on each loop, mostly following the same suburban road loop.
not representative of highway driving, but a mix of driving styles and modes on each. Essentially corroborating Toyota's estimated
efficiency, I saw trip averages of 3.6, 4.1, and 3.4 miles per kwh across the three respective models--suggesting a range of more
than 290 miles for the front-wheel-drive model, at something well less than interstate speeds, or nearly 250 miles for AWD
models in that scenario."
Looks like the FWD version is the one to get as it only trails the Model Y in efficiency. Would not be surprised for real world range to be above the EPA range as well. Not bad for $42K. And with only 7,000 estimated units allocated for the US this year, will be sold out instantly. Good luck to people on the waitlist like me.
Toyota anticipates that the single-motor version earns 119 MPGe combined--better than any version of the Hyundai loniq 5 or
Kia EV6 (117 MPGe at best) and its efficiency-focused e-GMP platform, and only bested by the Tesla Model Y, at 122 MPGe."
"I split the drive into three portions over the course of several hours--first an all-wheel-drive XLE, followed by a front-wheel-drive
XLE, and finally an all-wheel-drive Limited. I put roughly 30 miles on each loop, mostly following the same suburban road loop.
not representative of highway driving, but a mix of driving styles and modes on each. Essentially corroborating Toyota's estimated
efficiency, I saw trip averages of 3.6, 4.1, and 3.4 miles per kwh across the three respective models--suggesting a range of more
than 290 miles for the front-wheel-drive model, at something well less than interstate speeds, or nearly 250 miles for AWD
models in that scenario."
Looks like the FWD version is the one to get as it only trails the Model Y in efficiency. Would not be surprised for real world range to be above the EPA range as well. Not bad for $42K. And with only 7,000 estimated units allocated for the US this year, will be sold out instantly. Good luck to people on the waitlist like me.
04-12-22, 05:42 PM
#263
Lexus Test Driver
"First off, by quick-take indications on my early drive, across three vehicles, the BZ4X has got it going on with respect to efficiency.
Toyota anticipates that the single-motor version earns 119 MPGe combined--better than any version of the Hyundai loniq 5 or
Kia EV6 (117 MPGe at best) and its efficiency-focused e-GMP platform, and only bested by the Tesla Model Y, at 122 MPGe."
"I split the drive into three portions over the course of several hours--first an all-wheel-drive XLE, followed by a front-wheel-drive
XLE, and finally an all-wheel-drive Limited. I put roughly 30 miles on each loop, mostly following the same suburban road loop.
not representative of highway driving, but a mix of driving styles and modes on each. Essentially corroborating Toyota's estimated
efficiency, I saw trip averages of 3.6, 4.1, and 3.4 miles per kwh across the three respective models--suggesting a range of more
than 290 miles for the front-wheel-drive model, at something well less than interstate speeds, or nearly 250 miles for AWD
models in that scenario."
Looks like the FWD version is the one to get as it only trails the Model Y in efficiency. Would not be surprised for real world range to be above the EPA range as well. Not bad for $42K. And with only 7,000 estimated units allocated for the US this year, will be sold out instantly. Good luck to people on the waitlist like me.
Toyota anticipates that the single-motor version earns 119 MPGe combined--better than any version of the Hyundai loniq 5 or
Kia EV6 (117 MPGe at best) and its efficiency-focused e-GMP platform, and only bested by the Tesla Model Y, at 122 MPGe."
"I split the drive into three portions over the course of several hours--first an all-wheel-drive XLE, followed by a front-wheel-drive
XLE, and finally an all-wheel-drive Limited. I put roughly 30 miles on each loop, mostly following the same suburban road loop.
not representative of highway driving, but a mix of driving styles and modes on each. Essentially corroborating Toyota's estimated
efficiency, I saw trip averages of 3.6, 4.1, and 3.4 miles per kwh across the three respective models--suggesting a range of more
than 290 miles for the front-wheel-drive model, at something well less than interstate speeds, or nearly 250 miles for AWD
models in that scenario."
Looks like the FWD version is the one to get as it only trails the Model Y in efficiency. Would not be surprised for real world range to be above the EPA range as well. Not bad for $42K. And with only 7,000 estimated units allocated for the US this year, will be sold out instantly. Good luck to people on the waitlist like me.
04-12-22, 05:57 PM
#264
Intermediate
Tesla is still king of EV efficiency, but $20K extra should get you more power right?
At $42K, I would still pick the BZ4X over the base version ID.4, Mach-E, and EV6. The Ioniq 5 is probably the one I would recommend to others, but I doubt I will go for it myself.
Funny thing is that my mid-2021 Model Y reservation is coming up for delivery soon so I really need to decide.
At $42K, I would still pick the BZ4X over the base version ID.4, Mach-E, and EV6. The Ioniq 5 is probably the one I would recommend to others, but I doubt I will go for it myself.
Funny thing is that my mid-2021 Model Y reservation is coming up for delivery soon so I really need to decide.
04-12-22, 06:05 PM
#265
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by nicedude
Tesla is still king of EV efficiency, but $20K extra should get you more power right?
At $42K, I would still pick the BZ4X over the base version ID.4, Mach-E, and EV6. The Ioniq 5 is probably the one I would recommend to others, but I doubt I will go for it myself.
Funny thing is that my mid-2021 Model Y reservation is coming up for delivery soon so I really need to decide.
At $42K, I would still pick the BZ4X over the base version ID.4, Mach-E, and EV6. The Ioniq 5 is probably the one I would recommend to others, but I doubt I will go for it myself.
Funny thing is that my mid-2021 Model Y reservation is coming up for delivery soon so I really need to decide.
04-12-22, 06:08 PM
#266
Lexus Fanatic
Pretty sure we're going to see a hefty stealership market adjustment.
04-12-22, 08:07 PM
#267
Absolutely. They only plan to sell 7,000 BZ's in the U.S. market this year. That's a mere 1,000 more units than a GR Corolla. To put that in context, the Ioniq 5 has been on the market for only 2 and a half months and it's already sold over 6000 units.
As far as sales go, this is essentially a compliance vehicle.
As far as sales go, this is essentially a compliance vehicle.
Last edited by Motorola; 04-12-22 at 08:11 PM.
04-12-22, 09:36 PM
#268
Absolutely. They only plan to sell 7,000 BZ's in the U.S. market this year. That's a mere 1,000 more units than a GR Corolla. To put that in context, the Ioniq 5 has been on the market for only 2 and a half months and it's already sold over 6000 units.
As far as sales go, this is essentially a compliance vehicle.
As far as sales go, this is essentially a compliance vehicle.
Can't wait till a breakthrough in alternative battery chemistries for higher energy density, with faster charging, greater longevity, lower explosiveness and lower costs.
04-13-22, 04:06 AM
#269
Lexus Fanatic
I really like the effort Toyota has done. This new bZ4x looks like it will satisfy they demand for those who want a Toyota EV. This looks like typical Toyota, everything will work properly for 15-20 years, their promises will be kept for battery degradation and there are a lot of available features...and up charges for standard safety features. I read that it rides really well. This segment will be highly profitable for Toyota.
All that said, looking at the prices, that is A LOT of money for 200hp...and a A LOT of money for a EV that you have to charge all the time. it is also heavy
A Toyota Venza self-charging hybrid with a total 566 mile range makes for a far better vehicle.
All that said, looking at the prices, that is A LOT of money for 200hp...and a A LOT of money for a EV that you have to charge all the time. it is also heavy
A Toyota Venza self-charging hybrid with a total 566 mile range makes for a far better vehicle.
04-13-22, 04:08 AM
#270
I also wonder if European models get Panasonic battery for all grades. Because everywhere in European press materials, there is 30m charging and 150kw peaks. Europe is also main market for this, and I assume they plan to sell around 40k/yr in Europe, which is around half numbers of Rav4 (a lot).
Ah, that is the case... German configurator says they have same batteries:
