peteharvey

That's what happens when you're late to the party.
All the good apples are gone.

Rare earth metals got their name because of the lack of abundance.
Things will only get worse.

They must quickly come up with a breakthrough in battery chemistry.

EZZ

At least you recognize Toyota mgmt effed up pretty bad with their lack of foresight. Yup, super late to the party so all the good drinks are gone. They should have just used LFP vs what CATL gave them.

LeX2K

I was told Toyota was waiting for the right time then would dominate the market with their EVs I assume now is not yet the right time.

EZZ

The only thing they will dominate is the charging stations since it takes forever to charge.

peteharvey

If I was Akio Toyoda, I would go all guns ablaze on alternative battery chemistries - so that TMC, despite being too late to the party with rare earth metals - at least leads new alternative battery chemistries, so that the world climbs out of this rare earth metal short supply ridiculous price pit.
I'm not so worried about shortage of chips - I'm more worried about limited supply of rare earth metals.

LeX2K

You want Toyota to bet the farm on battery chemistries that don't exist yet?

peteharvey

I’m sure alternative battery chemistries will come.
Billions of dollars being spent on it.
Not if, but when.

nicedude

Kyle's video showed it took 62 minutes to charge from 0-80%. Two minutes more than one hour is close enough, but still disappointing. Still slow compared to the competition. Not a roadtrip car for me so I don't care that much.

I am leaning towards the bZ4X XLE FWD for the Toyota and the Solterra Touring AWD for the Subaru.

I probably will just place an order on the Solterra since I made the cut on my local dealership. Can always cancel the order later since it will not arrive until end of September/early October.

The local Toyota dealership where I asked to be put on the waitlist does not have a concrete timeframe. Disappointing as I rather own the Toyota version.

My Model Y order should arrive before the Solterra order so we'll see what happens.

AMIRZA786

Other than the slow charging, I have no doubt it's going to be a good car. If you don't plan on road tripping it, then it's fine. One of the reasons we leased our 2020 Ioniq with only a 170 mile range was it's purely used as a commuter car

EZZ

You are right. I was looking at the 90% curve which took a while to get to? I think that CATL battery combo is a questionable decision. Kyle actually really liked the actual vehicle and said it was a pretty nice SUV overall but overpriced at over $50k for the trim he had. The Panasonic battery at 150kw seems like a much better option. I bet the Lexus RZ450 will get the Panasonic pack. I think its strange that they didn't put the Panasonic pack into the AWD version and instead used it on the lesser FWD trim.

Keep in mind that Toyota will run out of tax credits before Subaru so the Solterra may be noticeably cheaper depending on when you get the vehicle. I'm a bit surprised Toyota just didn't use LFP packs for their cars as LFP is actually more reliable with much less degradation than the NMC packs they are using. They could have advertised slightly lesser range but make it known that they could charge 100% every time and guarantee the 90% capacity in 10 years with LFP.

Motorola

C&D performed a highway range test on the AWD model and got only 160 miles of range, which tied with the Leaf and Kona Electric. Not exactly where this vehicle is supposed to be at...

EZZ

Its really slow...hit 0-60 in 6.3s but 0-100 mph took 18.5s. So 60-100mph took 12.2s? They geared it to 60 at the expense of top end. Highway passing will be a chore.

160 miles of real world range at 100% charge isn't great. So Toyota EPA vs real world is about what Tesla advertises and gets. At least Tesla offers way more range to offset highway range loss and charges way faster. 160 miles is what i get when i drive the canyons and mountain passes on my favorite routes early in the morning. Yikes.

LeX2K

Toyota said they have class leading efficiency what happened?

TangoRed

Yikes. Good thing they were focused on China while developing these because they are woefully behind the competition otherwise.

AMIRZA786

I think the Chinese may already have more efficient domestic EV's already...