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I saw a bZ4X today in the showroom of a Toyota dealer in Los Angeles. It was used, and had a sticker on it with a price of $73K. There was a yellow tag under the windshield wiper stating that the car was not for sale. I wonder if this was one that Toyota bought back.
Yeah, a so-cal dealer emailed me and wanted $30k ADM, ridiculous.
Yeah, a so-cal dealer emailed me and wanted $30k ADM, ridiculous.
Since it no longer qualifies for the Federal Tax credit, I suspect that within 6 months after the stop sale ends, they will be selling with little or no ADM, assuming Toyota manufactures a significant volume.
So the efficiency and range on the bZ4X isn't just bad, it's "less than half the advertised range" bad in real world conditions. So much so that even Toyota is now investigating it.
Danish magazine FDM tested two- and all-wheel drive versions of the electric Toyota SUV and both failed to hit their range targets by literally (dozens of) miles. The two-wheel drive bZ has an official WLTP range of 313 miles (504 km) but could only travel 153 miles (246 km) before needing a charge, meaning it delivered less than 49 percent of its claimed range. The all-wheel drive version fared even worse, throwing in the towel after just 134 miles (215 km) when Toyota’s WLTP figures say it should be good for 287 miles (461 km). That equates to less than 47 percent of the claimed range.
The elephants in the room here are that WLTP figures are notoriously optimistic and that the test was carried out in Scandinavia in winter, so hardly ideal conditions for a battery. But we’re not taking sub-zero temperatures; the range numbers were achieved at 4 deg C (39 F). More importantly, the Toyotas performed worse than other electric cars tested by the magazine in similar conditions. A Tesla Model Y Long Range, for instance, was measured at 221 miles (355 km) against a 315-mile (507 km) official figure, meaning it achieved 70 percent of its WLTP rated mileage. And both the Mercedes EQA and Volkswagen ID.4 weren’t far behind, at 67 percent each.
What Does Toyota Say?
Toyota GB told Carscoops that Toyota Europe and Toyota HQ in Japan were carrying out an investigation into the findings, which aren’t isolated numbers, and tally with figures from Norwegian and Swedish media, from Norwegian customers, and from our own experience with the bZ4X.
But in replying to FDM’s findings, a Danish Toyota spokesman suggested that the discrepancy could be down to how much “reserve” the SUV has in its battery pack when the car’s dashboard is showing zero miles remaining. Though it’s unlikely that the bZ4X has 150 miles up its sleeve, it got us wondering how much spare range the average EV has, and how much that figure varies from model to model.
Here's the comparison chart from the Danish test. Rather embarrassing.
in the chart it says 'measured at 3-7 degrees' which i assume is celcius but still cold. so i assume a heat pump was running most of the time (it does have a heat pump, right?) or other electric heating elements which might be 'ruining' the range.
in the chart it says 'measured at 3-7 degrees' which i assume is celcius but still cold. so i assume a heat pump was running most of the time (it does have a heat pump, right?) or other electric heating elements which might be 'ruining' the range.
The pitfalls of EV ownership . Just imagine -25C. Heaters in my cars run full heat at that temp.
in the chart it says 'measured at 3-7 degrees' which i assume is celcius but still cold. so i assume a heat pump was running most of the time (it does have a heat pump, right?) or other electric heating elements which might be 'ruining' the range.
Pretty much every other EV on that chart has a heat pump (don't know about the Chinese one). It's a non-factor, and if anything heat pumps help with thermal management and range by using less energy to heat the cabin.
The main reason for the bZ's mediocre range is apparently because Toyota putting a whopping 10kWH buffer on their battery. Battery degradation installed fresh out of the factory.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
The pitfalls of EV ownership . Just imagine -25C. Heaters in my cars run full heat at that temp.
At -25C the other EV's would still have some usable range. Not the Toyota, according to those results.
The pitfalls of EV ownership . Just imagine -25C. Heaters in my cars run full heat at that temp.
The pitfalls of ICE ownership, the cabin is warmed by waste heat generated from the engine the entire time it is burning gas -- at idle, every mile, summer or winter, whether you turn the heater on or not.
After 3+ years of EV ownership, even my wife has abandoned her ES 330 and exclusively drives "my" Model Y. We fill the tank in the ES once every 2-3 months and only drive it when we need to travel separately. Otherwise the Model Y serves exclusive year-round duty for our 24,000 annual miles. Even on long trips we take the EV and not the ES, nor my Mom's RX 350, nor my former LS 430 (now belonging to my Dad).
Toyota is/was tops in the old world of ICE/hybrids but worst in the new era of transportation. The BZX4 is a deliberately lazy effort by Toyota. The company has the resources but leadership doesn't want to develop a competitive EV. That is fine. With current vehicle options our next new car will surely NOT be a Toyota/Lexus after almost 40 years of loyalty to the brand.
The main reason for the bZ's mediocre range is apparently because Toyota putting a whopping 10kWH buffer on their battery. Battery degradation installed fresh out of the factory.
Do you think this buffer decreases over time? I'm wondering if this is how they reached their "only 10% degradation in 10 years" claim about their batteries.
Is it true below a certain temperature this can won't take a charge at all? I've read this in several places.
Yes, extreme cold (or heat) will affect charging rate. In the cold most EVs can precondition/warm the battery enroute to a charger to mitigate the issue. However, public chargers themselves are also exposed and can be affected by extreme weather.
you already left the brand when you got the model y 3 years ago it sounds like.
True. Very rare for me to buy two new cars in two years time, Model S then Model Y. Point is Toyota isn't doing anything to lure me back. PoleStar and even Ford/Hyundai is more appealing to me now than Toyota/Lexus -- not a statement I ever thought was possible. It is like a marriage, we all change and either grow closer together or grow further apart. IMO, BZX4 is not helping Toyota's public perception.
Do you think this buffer decreases over time? I'm wondering if this is how they reached their "only 10% degradation in 10 years" claim about their batteries.
It's definitely a strange claim to make when over 1/7 of the battery already isn't usable. Guess we won't know the full meaning until ten years from now, which by then I doubt will even be relevant.
Whatever their excuse, this is a clear sign that Toyota has their work cut out for them.
CarNewsChina reported that Toyota cut the base price of the bZ4X by $4,300 in China. The 15% drop takes the starting price to the equivalent of $24,800, making the SUV significantly less expensive than the $42,000 American buyers pay. The publication also noted that buyers could upgrade with a solar charging module that adds almost 1,100 miles of range per year for an additional $2,800.
I would seriously consider this at $25K even with its many documented issues lol.
09-14-22, 04:30 PM
but still cold. so i assume a heat pump was running most of the time (it does have a heat pump, right?) or other electric heating elements which might be 'ruining' the range.
. Just imagine -25C. Heaters in my cars run full heat at that temp.
