Toyota bZ4X and Subaru Solterra
10-29-21, 09:23 PM
#61
The world is not becoming EV only it’s going to take time. Also going by Toyota’s reliability track record in Hybrids chances of this being very reliable is very high & almost given. They rarely launch anything which is half cooked. Reliability will be a factor which will work in Toyotas favor that’s just how the market perceives them.
And if reliability was such a major factor in consumer perception when it came to buying an EV, Tesla wouldn't dominate EV sales like it does.
10-29-21, 09:28 PM
#62
Lexus Champion
That would be a sensible explanation if this was an ICE vehicle, but EV's have no penalties, taxes, or fines for having more power. Which is why even the Euro and Chinese brands are okay with 300 HP+ or even more powerful motors. No other brand (to my knowledge) sells an AWD EV with less than around 300HP.
Basically, there's no reason why selling this vehicle in Japan or any other country would necessitate limiting the power.
Basically, there's no reason why selling this vehicle in Japan or any other country would necessitate limiting the power.
10-29-21, 09:33 PM
#63
My wife's 2020 Hyundai Ioniq EV only has a 138 hp, for normal everyday driving that's perfectly fine, as it has so much instant torque it drives as good or better than most 4 cylinders with 200 hp. At 70 or 80 mph it's so smooth and quiet, smoother than any V8 I've ever driven. So for most drivers that are coming from an ICE, more than 200 hp is just icing
10-29-21, 11:32 PM
#64
Lexus Champion
I get that. I'm only saying in reality you don't need 300 hp out of an EV the size of the bZ4X. Should they offer a 300 plus hp motor? In US they probably will because people here perceive more power as better
10-30-21, 05:39 AM
#65
That would be a sensible explanation if this was an ICE vehicle, but EV's have no penalties, taxes, or fines for having more power. Which is why even the Euro and Chinese brands are okay with 300 HP+ or even more powerful motors. No other brand (to my knowledge) sells an AWD EV with less than around 300HP.
Basically, there's no reason why selling this vehicle in Japan or any other country would necessitate limiting the power.
Basically, there's no reason why selling this vehicle in Japan or any other country would necessitate limiting the power.
It compares well with base versions of traditional manufacturer EVs, such as VW, Skoda, Nissan, etc.
Does not compare well to Model Y, but honestly, neither top spec versions of above compare well to Y in power. Because all these other companies want you to upgrade to Audi, Porsche, Lexus, etc, in order to get closer to Tesla performance.
And yeah, range and consumption of this thing will end up class leading, so size of motors might matter.
10-30-21, 06:11 AM
#66
Lexus Fanatic
The world is not becoming EV only it’s going to take time. Also going by Toyota’s reliability track record in Hybrids chances of this being very reliable is very high & almost given. They rarely launch anything which is half cooked. Reliability will be a factor which will work in Toyotas favor that’s just how the market perceives them.
On another forum, someone reiterated that the specs released so far has been for the Japan model only. As they noted, Toyota chose to do a 150kW front motor for FWD, while only doing twin 80 kW motors for the AWD version.
What's stopping them from leaving the 150 kW motor in front and adding the 80 kW rear motors for a North American/EU spec AWD model? That would bring the total power rating to 230 kW (308 bhp), which would be in line with the other AWD EVs like the ID.4 and more importantly, the upcoming Nissan Ariya, which Toyota probably sees as its closest contender.
What's stopping them from leaving the 150 kW motor in front and adding the 80 kW rear motors for a North American/EU spec AWD model? That would bring the total power rating to 230 kW (308 bhp), which would be in line with the other AWD EVs like the ID.4 and more importantly, the upcoming Nissan Ariya, which Toyota probably sees as its closest contender.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-30-21 at 06:20 AM.
10-30-21, 06:44 AM
#67
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The bZ4X is literally half-cooked. Toyota cooked one half, Subaru cooked the other. It is presumptuous to declare that this will be "reliable" based on a totally different technology that Toyota had to refine for decades to be as reliable as it is today. Hybrids are not EV's- EV's require more complex software for thermal management, which is what puts Tesla ahead of the pack when it comes to range, efficiency, and power. Toyota has never been known for strong software. Even outside of software, it was only recently that they shifted from nickel metal hydride batteries to lithium ion batteries.
And if reliability was such a major factor in consumer perception when it came to buying an EV, Tesla wouldn't dominate EV sales like it does.
And if reliability was such a major factor in consumer perception when it came to buying an EV, Tesla wouldn't dominate EV sales like it does.
10-30-21, 09:55 AM
#68
It compares well with base versions of traditional manufacturer EVs, such as VW, Skoda, Nissan, etc.
Does not compare well to Model Y, but honestly, neither top spec versions of above compare well to Y in power. Because all these other companies want you to upgrade to Audi, Porsche, Lexus, etc, in order to get closer to Tesla performance.
Does not compare well to Model Y, but honestly, neither top spec versions of above compare well to Y in power. Because all these other companies want you to upgrade to Audi, Porsche, Lexus, etc, in order to get closer to Tesla performance.
And yeah, range and consumption of this thing will end up class leading.
The basis of your belief that this will be a reliable vehicle stems from it being a Toyota. It's half a Toyota.
Last edited by Motorola; 10-30-21 at 10:19 AM.
10-30-21, 09:55 AM
#69
Lexus Test Driver
Wow this thing looks pretty cool and I especially like the interior besides the steering wheel.
I think young ppl coming out of college are programmed to buy only EVs and any ICE cars are evil.
This would be a perfect 1st car for a college grad with their 1st car that still lives home and has access to a garage. It should sell very well.
i’m disappointed that its FWD based though?!
I think young ppl coming out of college are programmed to buy only EVs and any ICE cars are evil.
This would be a perfect 1st car for a college grad with their 1st car that still lives home and has access to a garage. It should sell very well.
i’m disappointed that its FWD based though?!
10-30-21, 11:53 AM
#70
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota owns a big part of Subaru as well.
10-30-21, 12:01 PM
#71
Lexus Champion
10-30-21, 12:25 PM
#72
Barring this and the BRZ/86, Toyota and Subaru share literally nothing. Toyota owns a 20% stake in Subaru but they remain functionally independent companies. You will never see an existing Subaru with a Toyota engine or vice versa.
10-30-21, 12:31 PM
#73
Lexus Champion
The 20 percent ownership must be due to the Toyota 86 collaboration. The BRZ has nothing that identifies it with Toyota... except it looks like an 86
10-30-21, 12:52 PM
#74
It doesn't compare well to any competitor, nevermind Tesla, because it doesn't have any offering near 300 HP. Dream on about Audi or Porsche, this thing can't even compete against a Hyundai, Kia, Ford, or Volkswagen. Charging speeds are mediocre as well.
The WLTP range is already online and it's nothing to write home about. Not to mention that merely adding AWD sinks the range by some 30 miles despite no considerable gain in power, which is hilarious.
The WLTP range is already online and it's nothing to write home about. Not to mention that merely adding AWD sinks the range by some 30 miles despite no considerable gain in power, which is hilarious.
I am not sure if you dont know what other companies are doing, or are you focusing only on top end versions.
10-30-21, 01:46 PM
#75
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Toyota’s investment in Subaru must have paid off nicely. Subaru has done very well in past few years especially in the US