Toyota bZ4X and Subaru Solterra
10-31-21, 07:28 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
The toyota's specs are pretty underwhelming. Hopefully they're underplaying the specs for now and they'll be better when it's launched. Has toyota said when they expect this thing to launch in u.s.a.?
10-31-21, 07:33 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
The specs are just average. They match up to basically a RAV4 2.5 gas model. Might we see a $29K US starting price? I think so. The overall package looks to be very well put together. I just can’t see this Toyota EV working in every single corner of North America. If I can buy a RAV4 or RAV4 hybrid for pretty much the same price, and if I can get the same or better performance with 2X the range, then what’s the point of the bZ4X. It makes 201hp which is less than the RAV4 2.5. (All excluding the government incentives)
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 10-31-21 at 07:50 PM.
10-31-21, 07:52 PM
#93
No way this will be priced anywhere near a RAV4. It'll be around $40K to start just like the ID4 and Mach E. And we don't have their prices yet, but I also expect Toyota to price themselves above the Korean twins like every other car in their lineup. Toyota isn't going to devalue their own brand by making it cheaper than the immediate competition even if they have a less competitive vehicle.
10-31-21, 09:56 PM
#94
Lexus Champion
Many of the blog sites misquoted Toyota. Toyota started the new EV will have radiant front foot heating. Not floor heating as it’s sounds like heated floors according to some of the sites.
The specs are just average. They match up to basically a RAV4 2.5 gas model. Might we see a $29K US starting price? I think so. The overall package looks to be very well put together. I just can’t see this Toyota EV working in every single corner of North America. If I can buy a RAV4 or RAV4 hybrid for pretty much the same price, and if I can get the same or better performance with 2X the range, then what’s the point of the bZ4X. It makes 201hp which is less than the RAV4 2.5. (All excluding the government incentives)
The specs are just average. They match up to basically a RAV4 2.5 gas model. Might we see a $29K US starting price? I think so. The overall package looks to be very well put together. I just can’t see this Toyota EV working in every single corner of North America. If I can buy a RAV4 or RAV4 hybrid for pretty much the same price, and if I can get the same or better performance with 2X the range, then what’s the point of the bZ4X. It makes 201hp which is less than the RAV4 2.5. (All excluding the government incentives)
11-02-21, 08:34 AM
#95
lol, in what universe is 300 HP "high performance"? Half the cars on the list you mention make around that much power. Try selling someone an RX with <200 HP and see if they'll buy it.
This isn't about performance, this is about matching its competitors on the bare basics.
This isn't about performance, this is about matching its competitors on the bare basics.
I think your perception on what people are looking for and buying is slightly off.
Something to point out. An EV making 200 hp and an ICE or hybrid making 200 are not the same. An electric motor can make a ton of torque instantly and more efficient. Unless Toyota restricts the amount of power going to the wheels, the EV is always going to perform better. If I put my wife's Ioniq which only has 138 hp in sports mode, it can easily beat any 200 hp 4 cylinder, at the cost of range of course. If Toyota is keeping the hp low, it may be because they are using a smaller battery pack. As far as the range, it's totally adequate for someone who has the ability to plug in at home or work, or if you daily drive is less than 120 miles each way and you have access to a level 2 charger at home
11-02-21, 10:47 AM
#96
Intermediate
Decent effort by Toyota when compared to the competition. Interested to see pricing in the future.
Is there an Ignore button so I don't have to waste time reading a certain user's posts?
Is there an Ignore button so I don't have to waste time reading a certain user's posts?
11-02-21, 12:34 PM
#97
Lexus Champion
The puny 1.8kw Ni-MH in the Toyota hybrids can and does see 30KW both ways with only cabin air cooling. Teslas heavily exploit the massive battery advantage - each cell sees relatively little load. I don't see anything special about either. And yes, Toyota can manage the thermals, so can everybody. Never heard of an RX/GS/LS/LC hybrid overheating under normal conditions (normal = the water pump has not failed, track days are absolutely normal), and the motors (and inverters) in those cars are anything but unloaded. As I mentioned above, over 250kw combined flowing through the inverter.
Whatever bare basics are. People over here buy SUVs from MB/BMW/VAG with around (or less than) 200bhp and they're more than adequate on the road. The new Corolla 2.0 touring hybrid over here comes with less than 200BHP and is very well received. Rural and highway speeds here are way higher than in the US. 130+ KPH sustained, rural speeds depend on the amount of speed cameras.
I think your perception on what people are looking for and buying is slightly off.
Constant 200BHP definitely is faster than peaky (more or less) 200BHP + the transmission shifting. Certainly doesn't feel as fast without all the jerking and noise and drama, though...
Whatever bare basics are. People over here buy SUVs from MB/BMW/VAG with around (or less than) 200bhp and they're more than adequate on the road. The new Corolla 2.0 touring hybrid over here comes with less than 200BHP and is very well received. Rural and highway speeds here are way higher than in the US. 130+ KPH sustained, rural speeds depend on the amount of speed cameras.
I think your perception on what people are looking for and buying is slightly off.
Constant 200BHP definitely is faster than peaky (more or less) 200BHP + the transmission shifting. Certainly doesn't feel as fast without all the jerking and noise and drama, though...
11-02-21, 02:17 PM
#98
The puny 1.8kw Ni-MH in the Toyota hybrids can and does see 30KW both ways with only cabin air cooling. Teslas heavily exploit the massive battery advantage - each cell sees relatively little load. I don't see anything special about either. And yes, Toyota can manage the thermals, so can everybody. Never heard of an RX/GS/LS/LC hybrid overheating under normal conditions (normal = the water pump has not failed, track days are absolutely normal), and the motors (and inverters) in those cars are anything but unloaded. As I mentioned above, over 250kw combined flowing through the inverter.
Even Toyota's electronic control units are nothing to Tesla's more refined system.
Tesla teardown finds electronics 6 years ahead of Toyota and VW
Whatever bare basics are. People over here buy SUVs from MB/BMW/VAG with around (or less than) 200bhp and they're more than adequate on the road. The new Corolla 2.0 touring hybrid over here comes with less than 200BHP and is very well received. Rural and highway speeds here are way higher than in the US. 130+ KPH sustained, rural speeds depend on the amount of speed cameras.
The one advantage a bZ4X would have is the instantaneous torque due to being an EV, but horsepower is horsepower, and 200 HP is very noticeable in a 4500 pound vehicle in anywhere that isn't a traffic-heavy city.
Last edited by Motorola; 11-02-21 at 02:24 PM.
11-02-21, 02:56 PM
#99
Lexus Fanatic
The puny 1.8kw Ni-MH in the Toyota hybrids can and does see 30KW both ways with only cabin air cooling. Teslas heavily exploit the massive battery advantage - each cell sees relatively little load. I don't see anything special about either. And yes, Toyota can manage the thermals, so can everybody. Never heard of an RX/GS/LS/LC hybrid overheating under normal conditions (normal = the water pump has not failed, track days are absolutely normal), and the motors (and inverters) in those cars are anything but unloaded. As I mentioned above, over 250kw combined flowing through the inverter. The performance is the same as the RAV4 gas or the RAV4 hybrid, so my guess is that it will be priced at 29K in FWD form which puts its at a premium over the RAV4 gasser
Whatever bare basics are. People over here buy SUVs from MB/BMW/VAG with around (or less than) 200bhp and they're more than adequate on the road. The new Corolla 2.0 touring hybrid over here comes with less than 200BHP and is very well received. Rural and highway speeds here are way higher than in the US. 130+ KPH sustained, rural speeds depend on the amount of speed cameras.
I think your perception on what people are looking for and buying is slightly off.
Constant 200BHP definitely is faster than peaky (more or less) 200BHP + the transmission shifting. Certainly doesn't feel as fast without all the jerking and noise and drama, though...
Whatever bare basics are. People over here buy SUVs from MB/BMW/VAG with around (or less than) 200bhp and they're more than adequate on the road. The new Corolla 2.0 touring hybrid over here comes with less than 200BHP and is very well received. Rural and highway speeds here are way higher than in the US. 130+ KPH sustained, rural speeds depend on the amount of speed cameras.
I think your perception on what people are looking for and buying is slightly off.
Constant 200BHP definitely is faster than peaky (more or less) 200BHP + the transmission shifting. Certainly doesn't feel as fast without all the jerking and noise and drama, though...
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-02-21 at 03:06 PM.
11-02-21, 05:27 PM
#100
Mustang Mach-E RWD has 75kwh battery and 440km range, so essentially it is 25% less efficient than BZ4X, and it is not a lot faster either. 25% is huge difference.
Outside from power spec, it is really good first effort, especially if you dont compare it to Tesla in speed. Smaller maximum discharge rate for motors (1C for Toyota) makes battery last longer, this is why they can do 10 year, 90% warranty.
Not that I personally care at all, I like my Tesla's speed, and dont care about battery longevity.
Do some research on what is currently offered in EV world, you are posting a lot of stuff that is simply not true.
11-02-21, 05:30 PM
#101
it is (front) floor that is being heated, something that has been in development for a while, it should save around 20% of energy needed to heat the cabin. This kind of stuff is super exciting because winter range loss is huge with all EVs right now, even Tesla with heat pump. Sure, this will probably go into all EVs in 3-4 years.
11-02-21, 05:39 PM
#103
Lexus Fanatic
‘There is no way a FWD 201hp Toyota EV will be more MSRP than a Rav4 300hp plug in hybrid that offers superior performance
Toyota doesn’t even use the word floor in their press release
it is (front) floor that is being heated, something that has been in development for a while, it should save around 20% of energy needed to heat the cabin. This kind of stuff is super exciting because winter range loss is huge with all EVs right now, even Tesla with heat pump. Sure, this will probably go into all EVs in 3-4 years.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-02-21 at 06:29 PM.
11-02-21, 05:59 PM
#104
11-02-21, 06:04 PM
#105
You obviously don't know how these eCVTs work.
Ehh...
Anyways, ditto.
I don't see how you can compare like for like when we don't have EPA range numbers, cross section, drag coefficient or anything of the likes.
https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/a...n-electric-car
Ehh...
Anyways, ditto.