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Apologies to people that own this car and are happy with it, but IMO the entire car is a mistake. And if they want a 4-cylinder version why not make it a Celica? Seems Toyota has complete amnesia of the great cars they used to build.
Yes, it was a mistake. They should have made a lighter normally aspirated I6 version with around 300hp for the entry level model, that would have been nice.
There does not exist a naturally aspirated version of the BMW B58 I-6 engine as far as I know. Hell, it's been hard enough convincing Toyota to give the car a manual transmission option in ANY trim level let alone get them to design an NA version of the same inline-six that it uses.
That B48 2.0L turbo four cylinder engine is far more tune-able out of the box due to it being turbocharged (the factory ECU lockout aside) than the 2JZ-GE is, stock for stock.
I'm NOT saying the B48 is better than any 2JZ or 1JZ engine, just that it's a better entry level engine for the car due to it being turbocharged rather than NA.
Also, other global markets including Japan have steep tax brackets for engine displacements over 2.0L, so it makes perfect sense for Toyota to offer a decent turbo 2.0L engine option in this very desirable chassis. The B58C and and B58D I-6's are much better of course but there is definitely a reason for the 2.0L Supra MKV to exist.
Besides, the 2.0L seems to be the most likely candidate for a manual transmission option for the 2023 model year (all updates have been pushed a year due to covid affecting everything)... and that is for me the most interesting potential development. The European Z4 2.0L already has a 6-speed manual trim level after all and it's the sibling vehicle on the same assembly line. Why Toyota didn't include that very manual transmission with the launch of the 2.0L MKV is anyone's guess.
The lack of a manual transmission option for the MKV is the real blunder on Toyota's part. They need to get with it finally and offer the manual gearbox option on the Supra 3.0L models that people have been asking for since the car came out. 2.0L manual editions make a lot of sense too.
The last time the Supra had a 2.0L engine option was with the JDM MKIII models using a 230hp 2.0L 1G-GTE inline-six with parallel (non-sequential) twin turbos and a W58 5-speed manual transmission.
I'm not bothered at all by the addition of a 2.0L four cylinder turbocharged variant of the Supra MKV. I just can't stand that every model available comes with an automatic transmission. Given that the 2.0L only makes sense currently if your market has very aggressive tax brackets for engines displacing over 2.0L-2.5L.
If the 2.0L became available with a manual transmission option then that becomes the more desirable MKV model. If the 3.0L becomes available with a manual then that becomes the most desirable model.
...
Besides, in the longer picture I'm interested in the Supra model living on past this current A90 into an A100 generation and at that point the driveline options would become VERY different from the history of I-6 engine options if Toyota were to keep their flagship sportscar alive past model year 2026.
4 cylinder mk5 would just be a "Celica", via tradition.
The mk5 really isn't a Supra, and a LOT of people that were waiting for this car were very disappointed (myself included). It's probably one of the biggest reasons why older model Supras have skyrocketed in asking price.
Put a brand new Toyota Supra (actual Toyota) side by side with the Zupra and ask 100 people which one they would take. I bet it would be 9/10 the genuine Toyota.
as for the new supra... when i see them i think 'that looks sharp!' And i'm sure they're great to drive. Videos i've seen make the interior seem more 'miata' (cheap) than nice 'porsche' but it's a great car.
Some of the reviews I've seen say the weight balance is much better in the 4-cylinder, and it drives better on the track as a result. You wouldn't get that benefit with an NA I6.
But I can't even get in the damn thing in the first place, so it doesn't matter what engines it comes with.
Some of the reviews I've seen say the weight balance is much better in the 4-cylinder, and it drives better on the track as a result. You wouldn't get that benefit with an NA I6.
But I can't even get in the damn thing in the first place, so it doesn't matter what engines it comes with.
That is true with any smaller lighter engine, put a smaller lighter 4 cylinder in a Corvette/Ferrari and it will have better weight balance, have some track advantages from being lighter, does not mean it is a good idea. Who is taking their 4 cyl Supra to a track so often that it really makes a difference over how much nicer a I6 is over it?
Some of the reviews I've seen say the weight balance is much better in the 4-cylinder, and it drives better on the track as a result. You wouldn't get that benefit with an NA I6.
But I can't even get in the damn thing in the first place, so it doesn't matter what engines it comes with.
i remember years ago driving an IS350 f-sport back to back with an IS-F. The IS-F was faster off the line but so front heavy it plowed badly. The IS350 was way more fun to drive through an autocross.
That is true with any smaller lighter engine, put a smaller lighter 4 cylinder in a Corvette/Ferrari and it will have better weight balance, have some track advantages from being lighter, does not mean it is a good idea. Who is taking their 4 cyl Supra to a track so often that it really makes a difference over how much nicer a I6 is over it?
neither the 4 or the 6 is going to win the race unless it's against similar vehicles.
But I can't even get in the damn thing in the first place, so it doesn't matter what engines it comes with.
Yep.....you hit the nail on the head. It's not an easy car for me to get in and out of, either. That's why so many Baby Boomers like me, especially with weak backs and legs, are buying adult-sized sports/pony-cars like the Challenger, where you don't have to twist yourself like a pretzel getting in and out, or sit an inch off the ground.
If there is an issue with the Supra selling, it isn't because of the engines or dynamics. It is the alien-bug styling. One must REALLY love the Supra and Toyota name to look beyond the oddball lines. And sadly there aren't enough of those people around to make a case.
I took my 500whp to the track last weekend and had a blast playing with gt3s, zl1s, m2 cs, etc. It was easily in its element there with great brakes, handling, and acceleration. However, my friend also went in his fairly stock Zupra (with some aero and tire) and readily kept up with me, for the most part. The power I had could not be put to the ground except for on the straights, and in the sharp turns and sweepers, I had to keep modulating throttle so my back end wouldn't go out.
Having said all of that, I was disgusted originally when they introduced the 4 banger Zupra. But after my last trackday, I can definitely see how a lighter, more balanced Zupra would probably keep up with me at the track. Still doesn't change my mind they should of never done it though... :X
If there is an issue with the Supra selling, it isn't because of the engines or dynamics. It is the alien-bug styling. One must REALLY love the Supra and Toyota name to look beyond the oddball lines. And sadly there aren't enough of those people around to make a case.
That must also mean the old supra must be really an oddball as the MKV is readily outselling the mkiv....lol
05-28-21, 12:06 PM
Is the 4 Cylinder Mk 5 Supra a Mistake?
