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Like the 911, like the Wrangler, the Model S is an icon in the automotive industry. I suspect they will keep pushing it through evolutionary design not revolutionary when remodels are due. Personally I have no problem with this
But Porsche doesn't simply tweak the same body with what typically are considered mid cycle refreshes, they redesign the body while keeping the overall shape and design of the car evolutionary. Same with Jeep and the Wrangler. Thats not what Tesla has done.
Originally Posted by LeX2k
hat's proof to you? Okay.
Here are Model S sales to current.
2015 18,645
2016 24,000
2017 26,800
2018 29,950
2019 14,425
2020 20,301
2021 4,156
Yeah, sales from 2018 to 2019 fell 50%, and 2020 were down 33% from their best year. When you bear in mind that the early years were production constrained, sales are considerably down.
Not sure whats so controversial about the idea that a car should be redesigned over time. Except that Lord Elon disagrees.
I think the new S has a little life left. It’s not just sales figures at this point. Growth numbers will never exceed the best year. But, profit margin is more Important.. prices went up and even more on the high end. A good move. All the other automakers have done the same
I agree. It's all design decisions at that level. Cost cutting would be to put much cheaper silicon for gaming vs PS5 level CPU/Gpu combo as those costs are much higher than stalks. Lol.
Ability to lower production costs is why Tesla can produce so many EVs and not lose gigantic amount of money.
I assume PS5 level GPU is there for FSD capability, not to play games on the screen.
Things like removing lumbar seat, stalks, vents or horn are definitely cost cutting, but that is why you can have state of the art battery and motors.
Literally that is what Munro analyzes in his videos - I remember when he checked Tesla's rear view mirror - it cost something like $30 to make while BMWs rear view mirror with all the features included that Tesla does not have was $130 to produce. That was around $100 difference just in mirror (based on my recollection).
That is fine, problem comes when MB, Audi, Porsche have all these features and Tesla now has to incorporate them, their pricing has to go up as well.
Ability to lower production costs is why Tesla can produce so many EVs and not lose gigantic amount of money.
I assume PS5 level GPU is there for FSD capability, not to play games on the screen.
Things like removing lumbar seat, stalks, vents or horn are definitely cost cutting, but that is why you can have state of the art battery and motors.
Literally that is what Munro analyzes in his videos - I remember when he checked Tesla's rear view mirror - it cost something like $30 to make while BMWs rear view mirror with all the features included that Tesla does not have was $130 to produce. That was around $100 difference just in mirror (based on my recollection).
That is fine, problem comes when MB, Audi, Porsche have all these features and Tesla now has to incorporate them, their pricing has to go up as well.
FSD silicon and MCU are different silicon so the ability to play PS5 games isn't related. FSD requires hardware 3 which runs the autonomous programs. MCU or media control unit is in charge of the screen only.
Removing vents and lumbar is cost cutting for sure. Removing stalks and putting in capacitive buttons as replacements isn't cost cutting. It's probably adding cost as you have to have capacitive in the steering wheel and below the wireless charger. Pretty sure capacitive buttons are more expensive than a plastic stick.
FSD silicon and MCU are different silicon so the ability to play PS5 games isn't related. FSD requires hardware 3 which runs the autonomous programs. MCU or media control unit is in charge of the screen only.
Removing vents and lumbar is cost cutting for sure. Removing stalks and putting in capacitive buttons as replacements isn't cost cutting. It's probably adding cost as you have to have capacitive in the steering wheel and below the wireless charger. Pretty sure capacitive buttons are more expensive than a plastic stick.
Plastic stick has a lot of wires going to it, there is simply no way they removed it for other reason than cost cutting. They also dont have "plastic stick" wiper stalks for cost cutting, which is pretty annoying.
One of the areas Tesla is superior to Audi/VW is in costs involved to build their vehicles, there is nothing wrong there. Fact there is no stalks, vents, etc, is due to lower manufacturing costs. Same for display in front of driver for 3, same for hud options, etc, etc.
""No production car has ever done 0-60 mph in under 2.0 seconds. -Elon Musk
After an exclusive MotorTrend first test of the new 1,020-hp 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid, a car with a promised 1.99-second 0-60-mph time, we can confirm the 2.0-second 0-60 barrier remains unbroken. Unless, that is, you write your own rules.
As many MotorTrend readers know, we usually test at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California. Our figure-eight and skidpad testing happens in Lot 1. (You can see our tire marks on Google Maps, in fact.) Our acceleration and braking tests occur on Auto Club's dragstrip. But we run the strip backward to better simulate the type of asphalt and corresponding grip level found on countless streets around the world. Running the track in the "correct" direction means launching on a prepped surface coated with super-sticky VHT, a thick, black, grippy resin that allows cars to accelerate quicker than is possible on normal roads. Because testing on VHT isn't representative of the conditions real-world drivers typically encounter, our records show we've done so only twice in MotorTrend's 72-year history: in 1969 and 2002, both times in heavily modified, drag-race-prepped Corvettes.
During planning, Tesla requested that we not use our normal facility. After much back and forth, we offered to secure use of an automotive proving ground where we conduct Of The Year testing. Tesla then told us we could accept its offer of hosting us at Famoso Raceway near Bakersfield, California, or we could forget the whole thing. We accepted.
Then, at the track on test day, Tesla informed us it would require our driver to launch the car only on the VHT-prepped surface. But after further on-site negotiations and a backward pre-run by Tesla's own test driver, we came to an agreement: We could conduct runs in each direction, on both the Tesla-requested VHT and, per our normal procedure, on regular asphalt. As we were preparing to run our tests, the Plaid's handlers received a phone call, and suddenly our options were once again to launch only on the VHT-prepped surface—or leave.
After our own internal discussions, we chose a third option: We agreed to Tesla's conditions at Famoso and made plans to head to our Fontana test track the following day to see how quick the Model S Plaid would be when tested under the same conditions we've used to safely and effectively evaluate everything from economy cars to the world's fastest hypercars.
What Is The Model S Plaid?
Before we delve into the numbers, let's recap the Model S Plaid's truly impressive specs. Essentially the first significant update in the Model S' nine-year production run, the new 2022 version is slightly lower, longer, and lighter than before, unrecognizable inside, and significantly more powerful.
The reworked sheetmetal features subtly flared fenders designed to accommodate wider wheels and tires. The wheels now measure 9.5 inches wide in front and 10.5 inches wide in the rear, increases of 1.0 and 1.5 inches. The car also features revised front and rear fascias, plus a reworked hood. The highest-performance Plaid also gets a new rear diffuser and a carbon-fiber spoiler.
Inside, Tesla drastically reworked the interior to make it more luxurious, spacious, and entertaining—in fact, the company says the front seat rails are the only retained parts. The new dash is the biggest change. It features a landscape-oriented infotainment system similar to that of the Model 3 and the Model Y, a new digital instrument cluster, a new screen for rear passengers, hidden HVAC vents, and, of course, the controversial "yoke" steering wheel.
The most significant changes are hidden beneath the skin. The Model S Plaid features Tesla's first-ever triple-motor system, producing a staggering 1,020 horsepower and 1,050 lb-ft of torque.
The Plaid's single front and twin rear motors are essentially modified versions of those found in the Model 3/Model Y. However, in the Plaid they feature novel carbon-fiber sleeves that allow the motor rotors to spin at 20,000 rpm to achieve the car's claimed 200-mph top speed without punching through the stator. These carbon sleeves, Tesla says, make a more complex two-speed transmission like the one seen on the Porsche Taycan unnecessary. They also give the Model S Plaid a shockingly linear powerband: Tesla says peak horsepower happens at 80 mph and holds steady all the way to 200 mph (provided you've dropped $4,500 on the optional 21-inch wheels and your car has a yet-to-be-released software update; in its current state the Plaid is limited to 163 mph).
The battery pack was always the Achilles' heel of earlier Model S performance variants, so Tesla updated it significantly to take full advantage of the tri-motor system. It's slightly smaller than before (100 kWh on the Plaid versus about 104 kWh on the Model S Performance this car replaces), but Tesla focused its efforts on improving coolant and electrical current paths. The end goal is better thermal capacity, ensuring the Plaid can deliver sustained performance without overheating or power reduction. As an added bonus, Tesla engineers say the changes help the Model S battery pack charge quicker, too. The EPA rates the Model S Plaid on 21-inch wheels (like our test car) at 348 miles of range. We found that figure to be generally accurate in our own independent range and charge tests.
Rounding out the Model S Plaid is a revised air suspension with adaptive dampers, custom Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires, and the front brakes are now slightly larger than before.
How Quick Is The Model S Plaid On A Prepped Surface?
No matter the surface, to get the quickest launch from a 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid, you must dive into the car's infotainment system and select Drag Strip mode. Over the next eight to 15 minutes (the time needed varies), the car preconditions the powertrain for hard acceleration, heating or cooling the battery as needed and chilling the motors.
Once you've enabled Drag Strip mode, quickly chirp the tires on the VHT—at Famoso, it was caked on so thick it very nearly pulled our shoes off—by stabbing the throttle to clear any debris from the tires. To engage launch control, push hard on the brake, press the accelerator to the floor, and wait. Over the next nine or so seconds, the Model S' nose drops into the Plaid's "cheetah stance." When the final "launch control ready" message is displayed, firmly press your noggin against the headrest (trust us), release the brake, and hang on.
The Model S Plaid zips down the quarter mile in a staggeringly quick 9.25 seconds at 152.6 mph. The run from 0 to 60 mph happens just 1.98 seconds after the brutally hard launch. The Plaid covers distance so quickly, it's difficult to even register what's happening. The yoke gets light in your hands, your neck muscles strain as your helmeted head digs into the headrest, and your surroundings blur into mere shapes and colors as a quarter mile of pavement vanishes underneath you.
Cheater surface or not, the time is staggeringly impressive. Even more impressive and true to Tesla's word, the Plaid is capable of posting those times consistently, never varying by more than a fraction of a second or so each time we rocketed down the strip. We've never tested a car so robotic in its consistency.
The biggest differentiators we found between quicker and slower runs were mostly environmental, like rolling over a tar snake at the wrong time or, as the day dragged on, the hot afternoon sun making it slightly more challenging for the Plaid to keep its batteries and motors at their ideal temperatures. The brakes were the car's sole wart, overheating after our last run of the day.
Tesla's stated rationale for its stance with us regarding VHT launches is that "most customers" will run the Model S Plaid at dragstrips. But despite its speed, we'd be shocked if this were true. For starters, the NHRA—drag racing's sanctioning body—will ban any vehicle quicker than 9.99 seconds or faster than 135 mph in the quarter from running at any of its tracks if said vehicle does not have the necessary safety equipment (as it famously did to the Dodge Challenger Demon). This includes a full roll cage, window net, driver restraint system, driveshaft loop (obviously not applicable in this situation), and master cutoff switch, not to mention a full race suit and helmet for the driver. Tesla is aware of this; its personnel joked with the track staff about being thrown off the strip for being too quick after our runs. Tesla says it has no plans to offer any of the necessary safety gear to make the Model S Plaid NHRA-legal.
Even with the necessary safety gear, the Plaid isn't suited for bracket racing when using launch control. Without a friendly dragstrip Christmas tree operator, you're likely to still be standing at the staging line when the lights turn green: Remember, the car needs nearly 10 seconds just to get into its cheetah stance.
How Quick Is The Model S Plaid, Really?
The next day at our usual Fontana stomping grounds, we performed our braking and skidpad testing and repeated all but one of the acceleration tests we ran at Famoso. We were unable to run the full quarter mile again, as Fontana requires us to hire EMTs and rescue personnel when our testing might reach high speeds. They also require two weeks' notice to do so, which we didn't have. Even so, using our Vbox data from both the prepped surface at Famoso and the unprepped asphalt at Fontana, we could stitch together a reasonable estimate of what the Model S Plaid is capable of in a non-VHT-aided quarter mile.
With an air of anticipation, we lined up the Model S Plaid for its acceleration tests and waited impatiently as the car spent the next 10 minutes or so readying itself in Drag Strip mode. The times to beat in order to be the quickest production car we've ever tested: 0-60 mph in 2.28 seconds, achieved in 2017 at the same track with a Model S P100D Ludicrous+, and a quarter-mile run of 9.74 seconds at 148.5 mph, done in 2015 in a Ferrari LaFerrari.
Once ready and in its cheetah stance, the Model S Plaid's launch is drama-free, even without the added advantage of VHT. The electric car accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in just 2.07 seconds, more than 0.2 second quicker than our previous record holder. And if we could have kept going, our data says it's capable of running through the quarter mile in 9.34 seconds at 152.2 mph.
The gap between the Model S' times on prepped and unprepped surfaces is astonishingly close, as just 0.09 second separates them to 60 mph.
Amusingly, the Plaid launches so ferociously hard, it generates more than 1.00 g from 0.2 second to 2.6 seconds after launch, peaking at 1.227 g at 32 mph. That's more g than the car generated in its best 60-0-mph stop, which required 104 feet and peaked at 1.221 g.
So, yes, this all makes the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid the quickest production car we've ever tested—an immense accomplishment. It's also among the quickest vehicles on sale today, though Rimac recently claimed quicker 0-60 and quarter-mile performance for its Nevera hypercar with a European journalist driving. We look forward to independently verifying Rimac's claims, as well.
The Model S Plaid's 1,020 horsepower and lightning-quick acceleration paid dividends in our figure-eight test, too. It lapped our course in 23.5 seconds at an average of 0.90 g. Meanwhile, "with the steering and chassis in Sport mode, it feels sporty but also rather heavy on the skidpad," road test editor Chris Walton said. "It eventually begins to drift wide. It's not necessarily understeer but more like momentum carries it there. Eventually, both the brakes and tires lose effectiveness."
Not content with shattering our 0-60 and quarter-mile records, the Model S Plaid claimed yet another one: Its blistering 0-100-0-mph result was 8.2 seconds, besting the previous record holder, the McLaren Senna, by 0.3 second.
Going To Plaid In The Real World
Ironically, the breathtaking straight-line achievements distract from another monumental achievement: The Model S Plaid is quite simply the best Tesla yet. It doesn't matter if you're cruising down the highway, slogging through city traffic, or slicing down your favorite back road. The Model S Plaid delivers, no matter what you ask it to do.
On the highway and around town, the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid is comfortable, quiet, and a delightful place to pass the miles. Thanks to its air suspension and adaptive dampers, the ride is supple and well controlled over all but the most brutal of impacts.
The rectangular steering yoke, as expected, is a total pain to use at low speeds. The Plaid's 14.0:1 steering ratio needs to be at least twice as quick to make parallel parking, multiple-point turns, and U-turns less frustrating and more intuitive. Alternatively, a variable-ratio steering system could help at lower speeds, too.
The Plaid's power more than makes up for the yoke hassle.We're used to instant off-the-line acceleration from EVs, but this car's ability to deliver and maintain a similarly intense shove well into extralegal speeds is certainly a new experience. Every on-ramp and freeway passing maneuver becomes an exercise in self-control, as even breathing on the accelerator for a beat too long could quickly result in an unscheduled roadside appointment with the highway patrol.
On Southern California's famed Angeles Crest Highway, the Model S Plaid demonstrates Tesla learned a lot since its flagship car first hit the road. Although maybe not as pin-drop precise as is the Porsche Taycan Turbo S on the same road, the Model S Plaid is Tesla's most compelling performance car yet.
Unhindered by the thinner air effect at altitude that plagues cars with internal combustion engines, power delivery remains otherworldly, like a torquey small-block V-8 with an endless powerband. The Tesla's 1,020 horses and 1,050 lb-ft of torque allow you to rocket hard out of corners and eat up every straight. The Plaid's brakes, despite overheating at the track, are more than up to the task of reining in the Tesla on public roads, though we'd prefer more initial bite at the top of the pedal's travel.
At higher speeds on a good back road, the yoke becomes a nonissue, as you never need to dial in more than 90 degrees of input, even on tight hairpin turns. The steering's artificial heaviness gives the impression it lacks a bit of precision, but it's easy to keep the wheels pointed where you want them. Somewhat surprisingly, we didn't feel much torque vectoring coming from the rear axle. Getting on the throttle early midcorner doesn't result in the Model S pivoting quickly and clawing out of the curve like you experience in most other high-power all-wheel-drive vehicles. Instead, it pushes hard on its outside tires even as it avoids true understeer. A more aggressive Sport suspension setting could help; even with the system in its firmest mode, the Plaid still exhibited a tendency to lean hard, much in the way many hot hatches do.
How Much Does The 2022 Model S Plaid Cost?
Prices for the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid start at $131,190. The fully loaded Plaid we tested costs $149,190, about the price of a Taycan Turbo, and about $15,000 less than a Taycan Turbo S. (Of note: Teslas no longer qualify for any federal tax incentives.) And if you're wondering why Tesla called this the Plaid, well, it's the only step beyond Ludicrous—the company's label for its heretofore quickest acceleration mode—in the 1987 Mel Brooks comedy movie Spaceballs. And no, there is no plaid anywhere on or in the car.
The Verdict
Although the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid didn't deliver a sub-2.0-second 0-60 time on typical asphalt—at least not yet—it's no less of a striking achievement for the California-based automaker: The quickest car we've ever tested is a $150K five-seat sedan, not some multimillion-dollar, carbon-fiber-encrusted road missile. It's remarkably well rounded, exhibiting a combination of comfort, luxury, performance, and efficiency that remained a sci-fi fantasy in 2013 when we named the Model S the MotorTrend Car of the Year. Regardless of how much you care about acceleration numbers and how they're achieved, perhaps the most important takeaway is that the Model S Plaid is absolutely among the best cars on the market today.
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Plastic stick has a lot of wires going to it, there is simply no way they removed it for other reason than cost cutting. They also dont have "plastic stick" wiper stalks for cost cutting, which is pretty annoying.
One of the areas Tesla is superior to Audi/VW is in costs involved to build their vehicles, there is nothing wrong there. Fact there is no stalks, vents, etc, is due to lower manufacturing costs. Same for display in front of driver for 3, same for hud options, etc, etc.
It is fine.
I see your points and understand that a lot of removing stuff like stalks contribute to cost cutting. I just think in this instance, it was a design decision as the new Yoke steering wheel was done as a design aesthetic at the decision of Elon. He didn't want anything infringing on the view of the front display (Tesla's explanation) and the stalks would have been out of place given the position of the screens. Its also more expensive to put in capacitive touchscreens that run on the bottom of the wireless charger and has just as many wires as stalks so not really saving money in this instance If you don't agree, we can agree to disagree then.
I see your points and understand that a lot of removing stuff like stalks contribute to cost cutting. I just think in this instance, it was a design decision as the new Yoke steering wheel was done as a design aesthetic at the decision of Elon. He didn't want anything infringing on the view of the front display (Tesla's explanation) and the stalks would have been out of place given the position of the screens. Its also more expensive to put in capacitive touchscreens that run on the bottom of the wireless charger and has just as many wires as stalks so not really saving money in this instance If you don't agree, we can agree to disagree then.
Totally agree, for Elon this is an aesthetic decision not a cost cutting decision.
I see your points and understand that a lot of removing stuff like stalks contribute to cost cutting. I just think in this instance, it was a design decision as the new Yoke steering wheel was done as a design aesthetic at the decision of Elon. He didn't want anything infringing on the view of the front display (Tesla's explanation) and the stalks would have been out of place given the position of the screens. Its also more expensive to put in capacitive touchscreens that run on the bottom of the wireless charger and has just as many wires as stalks so not really saving money in this instance If you don't agree, we can agree to disagree then.
Elon is weird guy he would sacrifice safety over design decision in this case just to get clear view of speedo dash. He could've just used HUD and modern cars have round steering for years. I'm thinking he put this yoke wheel because it looks cool like F1 cars.
Elon is weird guy he would sacrifice safety over design decision in this case just to get clear view of speedo dash. He could've just used HUD and modern cars have round steering for years. I'm thinking he put this yoke wheel because it looks cool like F1 cars.
And remember, he hates HUDs so his customers cant have them even though they dont hate HUDs.
06-16-21, 02:38 PM
