Bob04

I mean, if it's the #1 threat to our existence and will soon be irreversible, why not declare an emergency and use the Defense Production Act to crank out solar like we did ventilators during early COVID?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

because for all the bluster, politicians know the public isn't really sold that this is a 'crisis' they have to sacrifice for now. So if the southern u.s. becomes boiling, we'll move to northern canada.

when the media makes a big fuss about floods here or a 'heatwave' there, it's hard to take it too seriously as those things have always happened.

I listened today to a so-called expert on npr talking about imminent danger and how we must cut co2 in half in the next 10 years, but when pressed on prior predictions being wrong he simply said well our models aren't perfect. So if they weren't perfect before why should we believe you now?

i have no doubt that nearly 8bn people on this planet are messing with the climate. But not always in intended ways. For example, they've now shown that wind turbines do actually screw up the 'natural' air currents (winds) in significant ways... who knows how that impacts seed dispersal, bird migration, and any number of other factors.

back to toyota and their lobbying, toyota has probably done more to clean up cars than ANY company... their hybrids and just engine efficiency in general, even reliability and precise manufacturing cuts emissions. Sure a pure ev is clean but to dismiss all that toyota has done is rather harsh, and i have no doubt they ARE working hard on EVs. Unlike a certain company i'm not going to name though, toyota works extremely hard to ensure every vehicle is exceptionally well made and designed to last. That takes time. Vw/porsche/audi got a few ev's out quickly, but that's probably more to appease the home (german) crowd and politicians. Toyota plays the long game.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Great post on all accounts. Should EVs ever become the majority of vehicles sold, I have no doubt Toyota will have a huge chunk of EV market.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Just look at this "green" solarscape saving the planet.

mbarron37

I would not be a consumer that purchases an EV to “save the planet”, but for driving satisfaction. An added bonus is no more oil changes.

There will always be people that are for and against EVs, but some (not all) of the excuses in this thread are laughable. Again, to each their own.

Tesla has done well and others are adding EVs to their lineups, so there must be increasing interest in these vehicles.

Bob04

Yeah, ironic. You wanna know what actually makes the planet "greener"?

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds | NASA

Och

iTrader: (3)

I personally couldn't care less about all the green nonsense, and I don't believe anyone truly cares besides the most rabid, deranged environmentalists. This is why I said that the article the the OP posted is nothing but sensationalist BS, its just pretense politicians and corporations use to push their agenda and line up their pockets. I have nothing against EVs at all, when, and if, there are EVs that suit my lifestyle and satisfy my requirements I'll gladly get one. Until then, no amount of convincing from EV shills why I should compromise will change my mind. Most people are probably the same way, but it can all change if the government starts banning gas cars, and manufacturers stop producing them.

Hameed

All excellent points.

I don't think anyone here is actually saying that Toyota is an evil corporation and/or dismissing their leadership in alternative methods of propulsion - hydrogen/hybrids etc.

It's also not about the unnamed company (Tesla) that you didn't want to name. None of this is personal, so I don't know why didn't mention the name, Its's also not about Toyota wanting to perfect their upcoming BEV tech (which they have paid lip service to so far)

The thread is not even about emissions that some folks get upset about.

Its about the fact that Toyota missed the boat on building a BEV as they bet on hydrogen and are now trying to protect their business by lobbying the US and Japanese governments against EV's.

Let's agree to disagree on the last point about how other manufacturers have rushed out BEV's. Porsche spent close to 5 (they revealed the Mission E concept back in 2015) years on the Taycan platform - that is hardly rushing. I don't know when VW started developing their BEV's but I don't think that was rushed either. So the "excuse" of Toyota wanting to take their sweet time about building a BEV is just that. They are trying to play catch up is the bottom line.

I have said this before and I will say it again - I would love for Toyota to get into BEV's sooner rather than later (and my reasons for having a BEV have nothing to do with the environment - they are simply for the smooth and great performance, very low costs for maintenance and cost to drive). I don't know if I would buy a Toyota BEV just yet - mainly because of the charging infrastructure for trips that is not currently as convenient as it is with my current car.

Bob04

Same here. Like I said, I have numerous cheap electric tools around the house and work just fine. My issue is that I don't want to be forced into an inferior product by self righteous aholes that live in mansions (plural), drive around in gas guzzling SUVs, and profits from business deals involving fossil fuels.

My biggest issue in getting a Tesla is their business/pricing model. I've watched the price fluctuate thousands of dollars in a matter of weeks. I've seen people take delivery one day, and the next day the price drop $5000. I would feel more comfortable if they would follow the traditional year to year model. Pay a premium for the newest. Get a deal on the year old model that is going out.

If Lexus and other EV makers stick to the current model, I'd be more willing to go with them.

SW17LS

The issue is, you yourself in your home are not a professional landscaping company. I would ask, have you ever owned a home and used any lawn equipment, gas or electric? I know you live in a condo.

For a private person who has a reasonable sized yard that can be mowed in say, an hour, I can tell you from experience that electric lawn equipment is as good or better than gas today. I am astonished by how great my electric lawnmower works, if anything it works better than the gas ones I've had in the past, it never bogs down, its quiet, cuts great, it folds up and goes up against a wall, doesnt smell, no having to go get gas, no changing oil, no spark plugs etc. I am so impressed by it I have suggested to several friends and clients that they get them, and every single one of them is just as delighted as I am.

To say that this equipment doesn't work well for a homeowner because it doesn't work for a professional landscaping company is ridiculous. The same logic extends to EVs. For the vast majority of vehicle owners, EVs will work just fine right now, and certainly will work even better in the not distant future. Is it going to work for major trucking companies or livery companies or things like that? Not at the current time, but that doesnt change that they will work for private vehicle owners.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thanks, then you proceed to rip it apart, lol.

these make them sound pretty evil:

toyota is first and foremost a JAPANESE company with extremely deep roots and connections to the government there. Japan debated a good while it seems on what their future transportation infrastructure should be. the horrible fukushima disaster probably influenced them too to not bet the farm on pure electric. toyota and probably honda, subaru, mazda, worked with govt to form their strategy. japan has NO fossil fuel resources. hydrogen can be transported, can be 'made', can be stored and can store unused green energy. also, large commercial vehicles cannot use batteries - they're too big, too heavy, and would take WAY too long to recharge. this is just my assessment of why japan chose hydrogen, but it was not toyota's decision alone. japan has/does long range planning, which i tend to believe is disastrous. the u.s. capitalist system may be nasty, chaotic, even inefficient at times, but it produces results and tons of innovation. the chinese realized this and let the tiger loose and we see the results. europe is very slow and clogged with regulations which is why so few businesses start there. european govt just issues tough decrees and companies have to figure out how to comply. they also serve massive 'fines' to companies they decide have been non-compliant, made too much money, or whatever reason - happens endlessly - a pure abuse of power.

despite toyota's size, they can't do everything. i've certainly consistently said hydrogen passenger vehicles in the u.s. is probably never going to work/happen. commercial vehicles? not a bad idea. would love to see diesel go away. but we're a looooong way from that. funny how talk of battery electric 'semis' seems to have gone quiet. why? because they're useless for general transportation.

so yes, toyota is behind on BEVs. and it appears they're asking the u.s. govt to consider hybrids and phev's in plans for any incentives. doesn't seem unreasonable really. if a big chunk of vehicles were hybrids we'd see a huge drop in fossil fuel use and emissions. as has been stated endlessly, a HUGE percentage of the population is not in a position to drive an EV, either due to lack of charging options, cost, or other needs.

vw's push for ev's is probably much less likely a case of 'great insight' and innovation, rather it's knowing the eu govt is saying do it or else. as we see in japan, that wasn't the pressure toyota was under and it's not an excuse, it's reality.

corporations don't get to do whatever they want. governments, market forces, competition, resource availability, consumers, etc., all get a vote (and in some cases a veto).

so this whole thread topic is way more complex than toyota stupid, tesla awesome.

mmarshall

Not in my later years, but as a young adult, before I moved out and got my condo, I lived with my parents in a single-family home, and used some gas-operated lawn-maintenance equipment. My dad tried an electric mower, and it was basically a joke....no gas or carburetor-maintenance, but it would stall in almost anything but very gentle cutting, and, of course, you had to constantly be very careful to keep the cord behind you so that you didn't run over it and, well......you know what. Didn't take long before we went back to a gas mower. I also used an electric Black & Decker bush/shrub-trimmer, which worked reasonably well (not as well s gasoline) at actual cutting, but you had the same cord-trailing problems, and you to oil the criss-cross blades every time you used them to keep them from wearing out.

I know exactly what your answer is going to be....the electric tools of 50 years ago are not the ones of today. Perhaps not. But it still bears notice that few if any professional lawn-maintenance companies use them unless forced to to so by local law.

SW17LS

And my answer is correct lol. Whatever electric lawn tools your dad used, someone I assume passed away many years ago has no bearing on how well electric tools work today. You mention a cord, there are no cords, there are rechargeable battery packs that operate the tool for hours at a time. You have no idea what you're talking about. Its 2021, not 1971.

And it bears no notice that professional lawn maintenance companies don't use them, because I'm not a professional lawn maintenance company and my needs are different from theirs.

It is SO infuriating to be argued with by someone who has zero experience with the subject matter. If you're going to tell me I'm wrong, at least have a passing understanding what sort of thing I'm even talking about, even better some experience with the subject would be a plus. I appreciate that you used a lawnmower 50 years ago but I used the electric lawnmower I'm talking about yesterday.

Hameed

Cords??? SW17LS is talking about battery operated tools, not electric tools that have no batteries.

LeX2K

Do you also use the standard of gas cars made 50 years ago to judge them today?

As for Toyota here's the hard truth, this is all about pride. Toyota wants to be seen as the industry leader that's why they are so resistant to push electric vehicles they did not pave the way in the EV space.