Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles
07-28-21, 09:48 AM
#166
Intermediate
There are batteries in advanced development stage that charge in five minutes. The arguments about accessibility to charging stations are moot, really, as batteries of a kind not even imagined today will inevitably be invented. It's not the best analogy, but I remember when home TV screens were 8-inch diameter and round, and they were relatively expensive. Magnifiers were sold to be placed in front of them, meaning one person at a time could view it. It was a common axiom that not enough people would be willing to squint at tiny screens for there to be a viable home-TV industry. Also, there were 3 TV stations broadcasting, for about 12 hours a day. Anyone who said 65" color TVs could someday exist, and they could be purchased by non-millionaires, would have been thought to be looney. Some day people will look back at the reasons EVs "can't succeed" in the same way we can today look back at early TV. That's one example, history is replete with them.
07-28-21, 09:51 AM
#167
It's been mentioned already. Toyota is working on fuel cell technology. Clean, efficient, long range and no need to plug into the power grid that's already collapsing. Saw a lot of them when we were in Japan. Hybrid was big too and so was diesel. . We're mostly pretending electric cars are clean. The power to charge still has to come from someplace and wind and solar isn't going to cover it. Scotty Kilmer on YouTube had a decent video around the challenges of going all electric by the "deadline." He also covered just how clean and reclaimable the batteries are. There are some real challenges requiring some far better solutions than we currently have, so I'm not seeing the big push as anything more than another debacle, more regulations and even higher prices than we already have. It's all going to shake out at some point, but I personally feel Toyota is on the right path with their Fuel Cell research.
07-28-21, 09:56 AM
#168
Lexus Fanatic
Sorry for going off topic.
Fuel cells run on fuel produced using the grid.
07-28-21, 09:59 AM
#170
I'm not telling you you are wrong. Do not put words in my mouth. I simply answered your question. If electric-lawn-gear works OK for you, use them. But my point is don't try and tell others what is best for them. Most of us, here, in this thread, are not trying to do that.
In fact, that is actually one of the advantages of condo-life, although, of course, you pay a monthly fee for it....not having to actually do that stuff yourself any more....which, in general, gets more difficult and taxing as you get older. You are probably at least 10 years younger then me in age (maybe more?)......and you'll probably notice a difference yourself in the next decade.
In fact, that is actually one of the advantages of condo-life, although, of course, you pay a monthly fee for it....not having to actually do that stuff yourself any more....which, in general, gets more difficult and taxing as you get older. You are probably at least 10 years younger then me in age (maybe more?)......and you'll probably notice a difference yourself in the next decade.
Just to add, this is the lawnmower stored in my garage, something that would be impossible with a gas mower. There are benefits to electric tools and vehicles that go beyond simply not using gas for environmental reasons is my point. I'm not someone who really cares at all about the environment, sorry but thats true. I want the best and easiest tools, be those actual tools or my vehicle. If I can get an experience I like better out of an EV, thats what I want. Lots of people are the same way.
I like this lawnmower because its easy to deal with, not because its better for the environment:
I like this lawnmower because its easy to deal with, not because its better for the environment:
That being said, cordless tools do not work for everyone, for instance a landscaping company that doesn't have practical means to recharge cordless tools during their daily jobs, and doesn't always have the access to an outlet for plug in electric tools, has to rely on the old gas powered tools. The same for when my workers carry a gas generator to run our welding machines - it's not that they enjoy carrying it around, but it's because this is the only resort when reliable electricity isn't available. Once cordless welding machines become available, I'll be the first in line to get one.
Steve, I am glad you are not pretending that you bought your electric land mower because of environmental reasons, but because it is simply far more convenient for you. This really sums it up regarding EVs - most people couldn't give a flying rats *** about environmental reasons, they will get EVs when and if they will become more convenient than gas cars. For certain regions its going to be sooner than others, and for certain scenarios it might never become feasible.
For those who complain about Toyota lobbying the government, I'm sure other companies lobby the government to pass laws requiring "carbon credits" and whatever else that serves their interests.
07-28-21, 10:04 AM
#172
Mach E is Car Drivers car of the year.
VW's EVs are nice not perfect but you have to start somewhere. The Mach E from an engineering standpoint is a bit of a cobbled together mess (especially the cooling/heating system) but they will improve. Very rarely can you hit a grand slam, it takes iterations. Look at the original Prius the electronics are quite hilarious it looks more like a prototype than a production car. But didn't matter Toyota build the foundation and improved.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
07-28-21, 10:09 AM
#173
This is from the NY Times article noted in the original post,:Behind that position is a business quandary: Even as other automakers have embraced electric cars, Toyota bet its future on the development of hydrogen fuel cells — a costlier technology that has fallen far behind electric batteries — with greater use of hybrids in the near term. That means a rapid shift from gasoline to electric on the roads could be devastating for the company’s market share and bottom line.
The recent push in Washington follows Toyota’s worldwide efforts — in markets including the United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union and Australia — to oppose stricter car emissions standards or fight electric vehicle mandates. For example, executives at Toyota’s Indian subsidiary publicly criticized India’s target for 100 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030, saying it was not practical.
Together with other automakers, Toyota also sided with the Trump administration in a battle with California over the Clean Air Act and sued Mexico over fuel efficiency rules. In Japan, Toyota officials argued against carbon taxes.
“Toyota has gone from a leading position to an industry laggard” in clean-car policy even as other automakers push ahead with ambitious electric vehicle plans, said Danny Magill, an analyst at InfluenceMap, a London-based think tank that tracks corporate climate lobbying. InfluenceMap gives Toyota a “D-” grade, the worst among automakers, saying it exerts policy influence to undermine public climate goals.
The recent push in Washington follows Toyota’s worldwide efforts — in markets including the United States, the United Kingdom, the European Union and Australia — to oppose stricter car emissions standards or fight electric vehicle mandates. For example, executives at Toyota’s Indian subsidiary publicly criticized India’s target for 100 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030, saying it was not practical.
Together with other automakers, Toyota also sided with the Trump administration in a battle with California over the Clean Air Act and sued Mexico over fuel efficiency rules. In Japan, Toyota officials argued against carbon taxes.
“Toyota has gone from a leading position to an industry laggard” in clean-car policy even as other automakers push ahead with ambitious electric vehicle plans, said Danny Magill, an analyst at InfluenceMap, a London-based think tank that tracks corporate climate lobbying. InfluenceMap gives Toyota a “D-” grade, the worst among automakers, saying it exerts policy influence to undermine public climate goals.
07-28-21, 10:10 AM
#174
Lexus Fanatic
That being said, cordless tools do not work for everyone, for instance a landscaping company that doesn't have practical means to recharge cordless tools during their daily jobs, and doesn't always have the access to an outlet for plug in electric tools, has to rely on the old gas powered tools. The same for when my workers carry a gas generator to run our welding machines - it's not that they enjoy carrying it around, but it's because this is the only resort when reliable electricity isn't available. Once cordless welding machines become available, I'll be the first in line to get one.
07-28-21, 10:15 AM
#175
You miss my point. The fact that they don’t work in a commercial application means nothing to me as a private consumer and user, nor does it have any bearing on how well these electric tools will work for the majority of private consumers. The same is true of EVs. People make the argument that they won’t work for a specific set of people and expand that to mean they won’t work for anyone, which isn’t true. Most people can drive an EV car happily today, they just don’t realize it.
07-28-21, 10:18 AM
#176
There are batteries in advanced development stage that charge in five minutes. The arguments about accessibility to charging stations are moot, really, as batteries of a kind not even imagined today will inevitably be invented. It's not the best analogy, but I remember when home TV screens were 8-inch diameter and round, and they were relatively expensive. Magnifiers were sold to be placed in front of them, meaning one person at a time could view it. It was a common axiom that not enough people would be willing to squint at tiny screens for there to be a viable home-TV industry. Also, there were 3 TV stations broadcasting, for about 12 hours a day. Anyone who said 65" color TVs could someday exist, and they could be purchased by non-millionaires, would have been thought to be looney. Some day people will look back at the reasons EVs "can't succeed" in the same way we can today look back at early TV. That's one example, history is replete with them.
07-28-21, 10:18 AM
#177
Intermediate
mmarshall is wrong about California. The facts are: California would ban the sale of new gas-powered leaf-blowers, lawnmowers and other “small off-road engines” as soon as 2024, under a bill being considered by state lawmakers. If approved, the ban would go into effect on Jan. 1, 2024, or as soon as the California Air Resources Board determines it is feasible.Apr 29, 2021
The bill is under consideration, it has not been made a law.
The bill is under consideration, it has not been made a law.
07-28-21, 10:21 AM
#178
Lexus Fanatic
And the opposite is true too, at least with EVs - people who drive them think they will work out for everyone. The reality is, there are millions of people for whom EVs might never work in the USA, and even more in other countries. I don't think Toyota has anything to worry about, they just need to be less transparent when it comes to common sense.
Bringing up the lawn tools. I can tell you with confidence, if it takes you less than an hour to mow your lawn, then an electric lawn mower will serve you just as well or better than a gas mower. Full stop. There are lots of people out there, like mmarshall, who have no experience with them and are extremely resistant to change who say that isn’t true, but I know for a fact it’s true because I have experience with the switch and the electric product. It’s the same way with EVs.
07-28-21, 10:21 AM
#179
Driver School Candidate
Because battery disposal is known to be safe and cost effective. Because battery manufacturing is a safe known commodity and doesn't take energy to produce the batteries. Because you have to charge your batteries with something and it's not always windy and solar is not always producing. This all reminds me of converting power plants from coal and nuclear to natural gas. So not only will some vehicles, lots of homes and businesses use Natural gas now we rely on it to produce electricity - what happens in a generation or two when natural gas becomes short in supply?
I love my 450h and think there is a place for full EV but let's not be short sighted and get rid of gasoline vehicles. Let's also continue to produce electricity by all means possible to not put all eggs into one basket !
We are told to not plant all the same species of trees and energy seems similar in ideas - spread the love
I love my 450h and think there is a place for full EV but let's not be short sighted and get rid of gasoline vehicles. Let's also continue to produce electricity by all means possible to not put all eggs into one basket !
We are told to not plant all the same species of trees and energy seems similar in ideas - spread the love
07-28-21, 10:23 AM
#180
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
This is from the NY Times article noted in the original post,:
...Toyota’s Indian subsidiary publicly criticized India’s target for 100 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030, saying it was not practical.
...Toyota’s Indian subsidiary publicly criticized India’s target for 100 percent electric vehicle sales by 2030, saying it was not practical.
the world has gone mad.