Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles
07-27-21, 08:12 AM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
Tesla not making money: company will soon be bankrupt
Tesla making money: earnings don't mean anything
I wonder how long investors will tolerate Toyoda's nonsense before they start to bail in large numbers.
Tesla making money: earnings don't mean anything
It's called "damage control" to protect their ICE business. They are doing the exact same thing in Japan.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2021-05-10/
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...an-2021-05-10/
"As a shareholder in Toyota, we actively engaged with the company and received reassurances that all of its lobbying activities, including with industry associations, would be reviewed and reported on this year," said Jan Erik Saugestad, CEO of Storebrand Asset Management.
"Full electrification of transport is vital if we are to meet our climate targets and Toyota should be leading the charge on this rather than prolonging the production of new combustion engines and giving away their market share to other companies," he added.
"Full electrification of transport is vital if we are to meet our climate targets and Toyota should be leading the charge on this rather than prolonging the production of new combustion engines and giving away their market share to other companies," he added.
07-27-21, 08:28 AM
#34
EV ftw!!!
. Is that "Toyoda Time" time? lol At least Elon has competition now - "Elon Time".
07-27-21, 08:35 AM
#35
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,052
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
44 Posts
as pointed out above, EV sales in California are 9%. I’d guess that metropolitan cities around the coast have similar high EV adoption rates. Middle America is what’s pushing down your EV statistic. Combine that 9% figure with the fact that California has the highest number of car sales, saying that clearly nobody wants electric is denial
07-27-21, 08:36 AM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
I have a lot of respect for VW to shift so quickly when they felt the market changing. They went all in on EVs and will reap the benefit of being a fast follower. Thats not to say that Toyota isn't taking the right approach for them as they don't really believe in BEVs (as indicated by their mgmt). They should double down on their belief and produce hydrogen fuel cell cars and hybrids and forget BEV if thats the case instead of trying to slow down EV adoption (kinda pathetic). Compete instead of whining to the government.
07-27-21, 08:37 AM
#37
Lexus Fanatic
I'm tellin ya, once range is sorted and there are a bunch of good offerings that are mainstream in appearance and feel, buyers are going to prefer EVs.
07-27-21, 08:38 AM
#38
Pole Position
Come on, be real lol. Look at what EV products and ranges etc competitors are developing and coming out with. How can you say with a straight face that Toyota is not behind?! Other manufacturers are on their second generation of all EV platforms and Toyota has yet to release one at all. Ford has an EV F150 that can power your house and we're supposed to be impressed by a Lexus UX with 170 miles of range you can't even buy here? Get real.
Whether or not the US is ready is a separate argument from whether or not Toyota is behind.
Whether or not the US is ready is a separate argument from whether or not Toyota is behind.
Umm how is the electric motors different in a hybrid vs an EV? How is the battery different in an EV vs the ones in a hybrid other than size and capacity? Why does Toyota need an EV, like, right now? How do we know Toyota's first gen isnt going to be better than anybody's 2nd or 3rd gen? Toyota has been producing electric motors and batteries for like 20 yrs. I'm sure they know a thing or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 about electrification. Can the power systems in the various cities handle the huge electrical demand? My office building that was built in the last 20yrs, if more a a few people have those small electric portable heaters running, the fuse box gets tripped and that's in NY.
What is the EV range in a vehicle similar in size to the UX?
07-27-21, 08:39 AM
#39
EV ftw!!!
I have a lot of respect for VW to shift so quickly when they felt the market changing. They went all in on EVs and will reap the benefit of being a fast follower. Thats not to say that Toyota isn't taking the right approach for them as they don't really believe in BEVs (as indicated by their mgmt). They should double down on their belief and produce hydrogen fuel cell cars and hybrids and forget BEV if thats the case instead of trying to slow down EV adoption (kinda pathetic). Compete instead of whining to the government.
07-27-21, 08:47 AM
#40
Pole Position
If I can fully charge the thing in 5 minutes without having to retrofit my home or scramble to find charging stations because everyone is parking their cars at chargers, I'm good to go. I shouldnt be inconvenienced when getting into new tech, that is not progress.
07-27-21, 08:49 AM
#41
Lexus Test Driver
If Toyota has a weakness, its software and they've always been bad at it. I bet they're finding that the BMS software is extremely complex and not so easy to get right especially to their high standards. They're probably worried about the incentives that will flow to the OEMs driving EV sales and they may not have a competitive offering at that time so they're lobbying to slow down efforts. Will be interesting how the market develops in the next 3 years.
07-27-21, 08:49 AM
#42
Lexus Fanatic
VW's EVs are nice not perfect but you have to start somewhere. The Mach E from an engineering standpoint is a bit of a cobbled together mess (especially the cooling/heating system) but they will improve. Very rarely can you hit a grand slam, it takes iterations. Look at the original Prius the electronics are quite hilarious it looks more like a prototype than a production car. But didn't matter Toyota build the foundation and improved.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
07-27-21, 08:55 AM
#43
Pole Position
Honestly, I think Toyota knows they mistimed the market. EVs are happening quicker than they anticipated and is now behind the competition. I don't believe that Toyota is ahead in this EV game at all because even the Germans are now finding out that its not hardware prowess that's driving EV development but software expertise. Tesla has it in spades and so they are easily leading...VW had major delays due to software issues and are now just getting it sorted (and they are the biggest auto OEM in the world) and even Porsche is finding that OTA software is harder than it looks and forcing recalls through its dealership network.
If Toyota has a weakness, its software and they've always been bad at it. I bet they're finding that the BMS software is extremely complex and not so easy to get right especially to their high standards. They're probably worried about the incentives that will flow to the OEMs driving EV sales and they may not have a competitive offering at that time so they're lobbying to slow down efforts. Will be interesting how the market develops in the next 3 years.
If Toyota has a weakness, its software and they've always been bad at it. I bet they're finding that the BMS software is extremely complex and not so easy to get right especially to their high standards. They're probably worried about the incentives that will flow to the OEMs driving EV sales and they may not have a competitive offering at that time so they're lobbying to slow down efforts. Will be interesting how the market develops in the next 3 years.
VW's EVs are nice not perfect but you have to start somewhere. The Mach E from an engineering standpoint is a bit of a cobbled together mess (especially the cooling/heating system) but they will improve. Very rarely can you hit a grand slam, it takes iterations. Look at the original Prius the electronics are quite hilarious it looks more like a prototype than a production car. But didn't matter Toyota build the foundation and improved.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
Haha. Elon time is something else.
07-27-21, 08:56 AM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
07-27-21, 09:00 AM
#45
Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,052
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
44 Posts
Well the article is referring to Toyota lobbying the US so it is about the US. Whether or not Toyota is behind is another discussion.
Umm how is the electric motors different in a hybrid vs an EV? How is the battery different in an EV vs the ones in a hybrid other than size and capacity? Why does Toyota need an EV, like, right now? How do we know Toyota's first gen isnt going to be better than anybody's 2nd or 3rd gen? Toyota has been producing electric motors and batteries for like 20 yrs. I'm sure they know a thing or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 about electrification. Can the power systems in the various cities handle the huge electrical demand? My office building that was built in the last 20yrs, if more a a few people have those small electric portable heaters running, the fuse box gets tripped and that's in NY.
What is the EV range in a vehicle similar in size to the UX?
Umm how is the electric motors different in a hybrid vs an EV? How is the battery different in an EV vs the ones in a hybrid other than size and capacity? Why does Toyota need an EV, like, right now? How do we know Toyota's first gen isnt going to be better than anybody's 2nd or 3rd gen? Toyota has been producing electric motors and batteries for like 20 yrs. I'm sure they know a thing or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 about electrification. Can the power systems in the various cities handle the huge electrical demand? My office building that was built in the last 20yrs, if more a a few people have those small electric portable heaters running, the fuse box gets tripped and that's in NY.
What is the EV range in a vehicle similar in size to the UX?
Last edited by RXSF; 07-27-21 at 09:23 AM.