Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles
07-26-21, 02:19 PM
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Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles
https://apple.news/AVUxpCMtORlejZTIm3nXPNA
I found this to be extremely interesting if in fact true. If it is to be believed that EVs produce less emissions over its lifetime, then this is typical profits over doing good.
of course there can be many reasons behind this, such as Toyota may think current battery tech makes EVs not efficient enough and is waiting for solid state before resllly pushing forward. But it seems at least on the surface that they took their sweet time on EVs and invested (and betted) in the wrong tech of hydrogen and now wants to slow the transition to EVs for profit.
The US is slowing moving toward adopting policies that would put more electric vehicles on the road, but for Toyota, it’s not slow enough. The Japanese automaker, which is the largest car company in the world, has been quietly lobbying policymakers in Washington, DC to resist the urge to transition to an all-electric future — partly because Toyota is lagging behind the rest of industry in making that transition itself.
[color=#e2127a]According to The New York Times, a top Toyota executive has met with congressional leaders behind closed doors in recent weeks to advocate against the Biden administration’s plans to spend billions of dollars to incentivize the shift to EVs. The executive, Chris Reynolds, has argued that hybrids, like the Toyota Prius, as well as hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles should also be in the mix.
In addition, Toyota is also pushing back against EV-friendly policy through the auto industry’s main DC-based lobbying group, the Alliance for Automotive Innovation. The group, which represents the major car companies and their suppliers and is chaired by Reynolds, has been arguing against the Biden administration’s plan to adopt the so-called California compromise as its official position, the Times reports.
Last year, a group of car companies made a deal on tailpipe emissions with California, which had been seeking to set tougher rules than the US as a whole. Under President Donald Trump, the Environmental Protection Agency had sought to strip California of its power to set its own emissions standards. But under Biden, that rule was reversed, allowing California and other states to impose tougher standards.
[color=#e2127a]According to The New York Times, a top Toyota executive has met with congressional leaders behind closed doors in recent weeks to advocate against the Biden administration’s plans to spend billions of dollars to incentivize the shift to EVs. The executive, Chris Reynolds, has argued that hybrids, like the Toyota Prius, as well as hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles should also be in the mix.
In addition, Toyota is also pushing back against EV-friendly policy through the auto industry’s main DC-based lobbying group, the Alliance for Automotive Innovation. The group, which represents the major car companies and their suppliers and is chaired by Reynolds, has been arguing against the Biden administration’s plan to adopt the so-called California compromise as its official position, the Times reports.
Last year, a group of car companies made a deal on tailpipe emissions with California, which had been seeking to set tougher rules than the US as a whole. Under President Donald Trump, the Environmental Protection Agency had sought to strip California of its power to set its own emissions standards. But under Biden, that rule was reversed, allowing California and other states to impose tougher standards.
I found this to be extremely interesting if in fact true. If it is to be believed that EVs produce less emissions over its lifetime, then this is typical profits over doing good.
of course there can be many reasons behind this, such as Toyota may think current battery tech makes EVs not efficient enough and is waiting for solid state before resllly pushing forward. But it seems at least on the surface that they took their sweet time on EVs and invested (and betted) in the wrong tech of hydrogen and now wants to slow the transition to EVs for profit.
07-26-21, 02:24 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota has it right. There is no way the entire auto industry worldwide can just all of sudden convert to battery EV...not by 2030 and not by 2035.. They point out in the NYT that 98% of auto sales in the US are NOT a battery electric. Battery electrics are inflationary in that the price goes UP and not down.....therefore people will not be able to afford battery electrics... so a crash to auto industry occurs.
07-26-21, 03:59 PM
#5
Pole Position
Out of all the ice vehicle manufacturers, Toyota is pushing back.......Hybrids are a great stop gap measure......Time for Toyota to grab the ball for a field goal.....
07-26-21, 04:09 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota is way behind the rest of the industry when it comes to electric vehicles, so of course they are lobbying to slow down the shift towards EVs. Its 100% self serving on their part.
07-26-21, 04:12 PM
#7
It just seems futile on Toyota's part. What good will slowing down the U.S. do when the rest of the developed world, especially China, are going to mandate EV's as the only acceptable new car that can be sold within the next 10 years? Toyota can't delay the inevitable, especially if they want to remain the best-selling car manufacturer in the world.
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07-26-21, 04:34 PM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
Last edited by DaveGS4; 07-28-21 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Knock off personal comments or leave this thread
07-26-21, 05:34 PM
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They are actually not behind. They have a BEV already for sale. They actually get that people will not buy EVs on a mass scale. The is a 2% market for battery EVs. Toyota is the only brand that can sell and make money on hybrids and are growing at an unbelievable pace.
Typical anti Toyota by you.
Typical anti Toyota by you.
the 2% figure can be misleading. For instance, is it because there aren’t enough options on the market that is creating the slow adoption? It’s like a chicken and egg problem.
I researched and saw in California, EVs took 9% market share in California in the first quarter of 2021. That’s not a small percentage.
07-26-21, 06:04 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
what BEV does Toyota currently sell?
the 2% figure can be misleading. For instance, is it because there aren’t enough options on the market that is creating the slow adoption? It’s like a chicken and egg problem.
I researched and saw in California, EVs took 9% market share in California in the first quarter of 2021. That’s not a small percentage.
the 2% figure can be misleading. For instance, is it because there aren’t enough options on the market that is creating the slow adoption? It’s like a chicken and egg problem.
I researched and saw in California, EVs took 9% market share in California in the first quarter of 2021. That’s not a small percentage.
All that said above, Toyota has a new concept BEV as Lexus BEV which will be on sale next year..not a Tesla but it will the natural step up from the RAV4 plug in hybrid or for the Lexus NX.
As for the 2% US EV sales, it’s absolutely true. And would be even less without government subsidies. But, that is not to say the EVs are not the future as they are and Toyota knows this and absolutely said this in the NYTs article. But at the same time, they are saying to the US government, to realize that not everyone will or can afford a new EV in such a short timeline. At some point, someone has to realize that battery electrics cannot fulfill all needs.
I guarantee that Toyota will start charging their tune shortly. They will start talking more and more above battery electrics..about their tech etc etc . With the recent Tesla announcements today about their earnings, and profits in the segment start to become generated, Toyota will want to be part of it (just like every other automaker). Toyota already changed their tune on the operating system for their new models…they just came out last week with interviews about how they needed to change and stop outsourcing the system and build it in house…they knew that years ago…same thing with BEVs, they knew that a long time ago too…but nobody was really making profit until today’s announcement….
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 07-26-21 at 06:11 PM.
07-26-21, 06:48 PM
#13
Pole Position
Toyota is not behind. I would assume a Hybrid is many times more complex to engineer than a giant sized Hot Wheels (im oversimplifying here...). The US is not ready for a full conversion to EVs. The infrastructure is not there and it will take many decades to accomplish. We have those things called Unions and they will slow things down to a crawl. Realistically, where will we get all the materials necessary to create billions of battery cells a yr?
07-26-21, 07:13 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
Toyota's chief scientist for North America Gill Pratt owns a Model X. I'm sure it's just to check out the competition. Listen to what this guy has to say:
That is some seriously twisted logic is this guy a legit moron? There is also a carbon footprint to make the engine, transmission, gas tank, emissions controls, exhaust system. That's not even accounting for the carbon footprint of producing petrol then burning it. These are the people responsible for Toyota's future.
“I love my Tesla Model X BEV. But commuting 30 miles in it every day — the average US commute — and recharging it every night is wasteful of the carbon reducing potential of most of its over 300 mile range battery. Sometimes we take the Tesla on long trips. But most of the time, 90% of its battery cells aren’t doing any good, and would reduce carbon much more if they were harder at work in other types of electrified vehicles, including HEVs or PHEVs,” the Toyota Research CEO wrote.
With this in mind, Pratt argued that it would be more efficient if batteries are distributed to more “right-sized” electrified vehicles instead, including hybrids and PHEVs. The cells that could go on one Tesla, for example, could instead be used for several electrified cars. “We hardly ever put gas into our RAV4 Prime PHEV, which has a battery ⅙ as large as our Model X BEV. For the same investment in batteries as our single Model X, five other RAV4 Prime customers could reduce their carbon footprint too,” Pratt explained.
With this in mind, Pratt argued that it would be more efficient if batteries are distributed to more “right-sized” electrified vehicles instead, including hybrids and PHEVs. The cells that could go on one Tesla, for example, could instead be used for several electrified cars. “We hardly ever put gas into our RAV4 Prime PHEV, which has a battery ⅙ as large as our Model X BEV. For the same investment in batteries as our single Model X, five other RAV4 Prime customers could reduce their carbon footprint too,” Pratt explained.