Toys4RJill

Other than some electric sedans, this will never happen in the United States

SW17LS

I simply do not understand how you can continue to make these statements when you yourself abandoned sedans for a crossover. If this was so important to you, you should have continued to support sedans by continuing to buy them. Talk is cheap.

Agreed.

EZZ

I think the sports sedan never left the market. Its a good compromise on almost sports car handling, with functionality that crossovers can't begin to match, so the 3 series and its competitors will always have a large market. The midsize sedan market is the most in trouble because a Rav4 is a better experience than a basic Camry for family duties for many people.

Toys4RJill

It is still shrinking. The US sales of the 3 series are about 1/2 of what they once were. Lexus IS was only partially redesign. Eventually the smaller players will exit as well.

When the price is comparable. The moment someone sits in a crossover after sitting in a sedan....a light bulb usually turns on.

Now Toyota (I don't know other brands as well) is gonna convert their Corolla owners into Corolla Cross owners....same interior, same power train just larger and every so slightly higher off the ground

SW17LS

Even me, I get closer and closer to a crossover every time I trade.

Toys4RJill

At some point you might. Who knows? I do notice that crossovers are getting lower and sleeker than they were in the past. Saw an RX today, it’s more like a large tall sitting sedan vs a large tall sitting suv. Highlander is more like that too. (Complete opposite of the Palisade In my eyes). Nissan Murano is another one. Venza too

EZZ

Sure some went to the X3 but the sport buyers have largely remained because crossover have sucky handling relative to a nice sports sedan.

SW17LS

I would imagine that I will eventually, especially as sedan choices get fewer and further between. Now that I've scratched the S Class itch it might be time to scratch the Range Rover itch next time

Toys4RJill

They killed them, because there’s no money to be made. And usually they kill them, when there is a redesign somewhere on the horizon . As for the Toyota Avalon, this is not so much about killing the current model, but it’s about making sure that everybody knows there will be no next generation model.

Smart companies, know when to keep something, or cancel something. A global pandemic that is not slowing, inflation, instability everywhere, Toyota pulls the plug, as they move the money, that they would spend on this new Avalon to something totally different.

General motors, it’s not a very admirable company in my opinion. Their legacy of what they did in the 1980s and 1990s is appalling. However when they cancelled their large sedans, it was one of the best things that they have ever done in this century. They are finally making money, and good money.

What is astonishing, is that you are fighting for sedans, big sedans, and yet you bought a small crossover

RNM GS3

3series used to be sedan, wagon, coupe and convertible.
Now to equal those #s just add together 3 and 4series. The wagon was replaced by X3.

I chose the X3 over the 5series sedan because its way more spacious in 2nd row as a I have 2 child seats otherwise I prefer sedans.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

or they get that great job offer in rochester ny and realize in november there's no way in hell they're waiting for a bus or even an uber and want their own car.

mmarshall

Same general principle.



First, as far a building junk, GM wasn't alone...other companies, particularly Chrysler, despite Lee Iacocca's smooth-talk, also built very unreliable products back then. So did Fiat, Renault, and Yugo, until they were forced out of the U.S. market. Second, GM's Saturn division, at least in its first decade, was anything BUT appalling....it set new standards in customer-satisfaction and marketing.


Nope. Not astonishing at all. I think of more than just myself. I am not a selfish person.

Motorola

It'll be a long time before American infrastructure can make way for car-less traveling. Europeans can do it because their infrastructure was entirely rebuilt following WWII with city commuting in mind, which is why they still have trains en masse, while the U.S. is perpetually long stretches of highway that connect cities where people work to suburbs where they live, necessitating everyone to have a car.

The U.S. has a far better chance of becoming 100% EV than it does moving to sustainable public transportation.

Younger people are moving to cities, but that won't be the case anymore once they have a family and kids to take care of. Cities are just not sustainable for that lifestyle, at least not in the U.S. Those families who do live within cities tend to be more poor and do so by necessity (i.e. their job requires it), not choice. The American Dream is still suburbia.

E46CT

The Avalon is in a strange spot because its exterior and interior dimensions are identical to the Accord which puts the Camry in an even stranger spot. The Avalon should actually be the Camry, if it wants the Camry to better compete with the Accord. This will force the next Camry to be Avalon sized. This is a logical move from Toyota to consolidate two models into one. Everything else has moved on size wise except the Camry. I'll bet you the new Civic is approaching or even meets Camry dimensions... (I'll have to look)

Anyway if this is all true this means the Camry and ES will be platform mates again for the next gen.

E46CT

BTW Acura consolidated the TL and TSX and created the TLX. So I can see them doing the same W/ Avalon and Camry and just creating a larger Camry next go around. There's no reason to have an ever so slightly bigger version of the same car... when cars are a hard sell.