Toyota Avalon Is Dead In The US After 2022 Model Year
08-04-21, 11:51 AM
#76
I Interesting.... A Camry L would be an alternative. I am curious as to what they will do with the next ES as well since it was on the Avalon's stretched Camry platform I believe. Also, the 6 cylinder engine could potentially be the discontinued for the next gen Camry/ES.
Nothing is going to happen to ES because.... it sells well..
08-04-21, 11:58 AM
#77
Lexus Fanatic
Yes and no. I would have been more likely to get one had Toyota put more attention into the hardware-quality and not used Halloween-mask styling.
There were a couple of ways to outsmart it. But, yes, that was one of GM's weak points....they should have used the de-activate switch from the beginning, instead of waiting a couple of years to install it. And then, when they DID install the switch, like some other automakers, they programmed it so that you have to punch the button every time you start the engine....unless the engine is cold or the A/C or heater is on full-blast, which overrides the idle-cut-off.
Having said that, the system on the Lacrosse never failed me, left me stranded or refused to automatically fire up the engine, even after many thousands of restarts. After a while, I got tired of playing Cat-and-Mouse with the system, and just let it do its thing. GM said that they beefed up the starter, battery, and electronics to handle the extra load of all those extra starts,, and that did seem to be the case.
Chevy and Cadillac also used that E-Joystick on some of their models. It was not an exclusively Lacrosse or Enclave feature. I never liked it, but got used to it.
But, I was also shocked at your dismay for that terrible stop start feature your Lacrosse had an how you used to always try to outsmart it 
Having said that, the system on the Lacrosse never failed me, left me stranded or refused to automatically fire up the engine, even after many thousands of restarts. After a while, I got tired of playing Cat-and-Mouse with the system, and just let it do its thing. GM said that they beefed up the starter, battery, and electronics to handle the extra load of all those extra starts,, and that did seem to be the case.
And that electronic shifter was always something so confusing…. Oh well, you have a cross over now
08-04-21, 12:40 PM
#78
That would not happen unless Lexus wants to just be a very 2nd Tier at most premium company. The ES sells because it is pretty inexpensive, offers a lot of car for the money, not because it is all that desirable/aspirational like a flagship luxury sedan should be or even a mid level sedan. A 3 row RX based CUV is not going to take over where the LS is either, if Lexus would make a move like that they would not be seen much as a luxury company anymore, just a seller of nicer Toyota's. LS's problem is its odd/awkward styling, odd interior styling, less roomy then previous version and especially lack of V8, the LS name can still be fixed and give traditional LS buyers the car they want to upgrade to, they clearly don't want what is being currently offered.
Like it or not, a Highlander-based SUV will soon take the place of the RWD Toyota Crown in Japan, a nameplate that has a much longer history and far more global recognition than the LS. The LS has no chance of survival in its current sedan form if even the Crown can't survive.
08-04-21, 01:56 PM
#79
Lexus Fanatic
The LS has no chance of survival in its current sedan form if even the Crown can't survive.
08-04-21, 03:31 PM
#81
The LS is selling poorly because they messed up the redesign several years ago, not necessarily because people don't want big LS models any more. The Lexus designers created the LS's problems......now it will be up to them to un-create those problems by returning the car to what it is supposed to be.
Well, there's the key.....return the LS to what it is supposed to be. That means a naturally-aspirated V8, soft suspension, traditional Lexus quality, and plenty of insulation inside snd out.
Well, there's the key.....return the LS to what it is supposed to be. That means a naturally-aspirated V8, soft suspension, traditional Lexus quality, and plenty of insulation inside snd out.
And even if the LS miraculously makes it onto the next generation, it won't have a V8 as it won't be possible to sell it anywhere in the world except for the U.S. because of emissions just like the IS500, which will make it a very unprofitable venture.
Will it dilute Lexus's brand image if they replace the LS with some FWD CUV, or kill it altogether? Perhaps- but it's a moot point when most of Lexus's ICE RWD offerings are on their way out the door. If they truly want an aspirational image, they'll have to follow Tesla/Mercedes/Audi/BMW/Porsche/Volvo/Genesis's steps and shift towards full EV's and electrification, an area that we all know Toyota isn't that fond of.
Last edited by Motorola; 08-04-21 at 03:41 PM.
08-04-21, 03:43 PM
#82
Lexus Fanatic
The LS is not just selling poorly because f the changes they made, the whole segment's sales have decreased dramatically.
08-04-21, 04:01 PM
#83
Lexus Fanatic
True to an extent, but there is no question that the redesign was also a factor. You yourself (at least, according to the threads you did on it) were one of those who moved to a German competitor because of the way the new LS500 was executed.
08-04-21, 04:36 PM
#84
Lexus Fanatic
The bottom line is the only full size luxury sedan today that sells over 10k units a year is the S Class.
08-04-21, 05:56 PM
#85
Apparently that's an EPA thing. If they allow it to remember it each time the engine cycles they loose credits for their CAFE standards. That's why they all do it that way, they figure the average person won't push the button each time they start the car.
08-04-21, 06:42 PM
#86
In my opinion, they ruined it when they went and tried making it sporty. Older clientele drive these large cars and they want a really soft, comfortable, quiet ride. What I still can't get past is the fact they made a TRD Avalon.
The last few days I've been wondering myself why I've stuck with sedans for all these years. I guess just nostalgia and wanting to be different. A throwback in a way. I do get why crossovers are so popular. The 3 or 4 inch difference in riding height as well as the added versatility for towing/cargo room cannot be denied.
Still sad all these sedans are going away.
The last few days I've been wondering myself why I've stuck with sedans for all these years. I guess just nostalgia and wanting to be different. A throwback in a way. I do get why crossovers are so popular. The 3 or 4 inch difference in riding height as well as the added versatility for towing/cargo room cannot be denied.
Still sad all these sedans are going away.
08-04-21, 06:44 PM
#87
Lexus Fanatic
But here’s the thing. The Avalon is not sporty. Drive one, they ride and drive great, very soft and quiet.
The TRD version was just an attempt to try and get the car noticed.
The TRD version was just an attempt to try and get the car noticed.
08-04-21, 06:51 PM
#88
I just saw a video of the TRD Avalon on YouTube and I got a good laugh with the body kit and the spoiler and all that. TRD badges all over the place. I guess it's mostly cosmetic but still. I would figure an older person would have wanted just a regular, plain looking large sedan. Not many to pick from.
Maybe they are figuring that sitting down in a low-riding sedan is more uncomfortable than stepping into a crossover.
Maybe they are figuring that sitting down in a low-riding sedan is more uncomfortable than stepping into a crossover.
08-04-21, 07:37 PM
#89
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
That said, all things being equal, sedan platforms still have better handling, better ride, better braking, better acceleration, better fuel economy, and in the current environment, lower pricing. To me, this last part explains automakers' eagerness to switch to SUVs —they can charge thousands more for the same content (Legacy vs. Outback, Impreza vs. Crosstour, Fit vs. HR-V, CR-V vs. Civic, RAV4 vs. Corolla, etc, etc, etc..). Are people willing to pay that difference? Yes. Does that make the SUV version the better value objectively? Not necessarily. Just because little Johnny runs off the cliff doesn't mean I have to.
And we're not talking the last dodo here. The Camry, Corolla, Civic, and Accord still sell very well, and even the Fusion and Malibu moved a lot of units despite their makers' neglect right up to their discontinuation decisions. There are still millions of people who think a sedan makes sense for them.
I do get your continued desire for a sedan. In 2018 i traded my jeep grand cherokee in and leased a genesis g90 (large sedan). The ride was certainly nice, and the trunk pretty big, and the back seat was GIGANTIC. But this february when the 3 year lease was nearly up, i decided to go back to a crossover for work because it really is more practical. Got a hyundai santa fe. Obviously the santa fe doesn't have the wood or some other high quality materials, and doesn't have as big rear seat leg room (although not bad because it's more upright), but it's still an incredibly nice design to me, and amazingly, it has MORE features than the g90 had.
A loaded santa fe calligraphy is about HALF the price is a loaded g90. That's incredible.
About the santa fe's features, just today i parked it at a client and then someone else parked about 1" behind me. Not thrilled, i got out the key fob and moved the car forward without getting in the car.
08-04-21, 07:40 PM
#90
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I just saw a video of the TRD Avalon on YouTube and I got a good laugh with the body kit and the spoiler and all that. TRD badges all over the place. I guess it's mostly cosmetic but still. I would figure an older person would have wanted just a regular, plain looking large sedan. Not many to pick from.
Maybe they are figuring that sitting down in a low-riding sedan is more uncomfortable than stepping into a crossover.