mmarshall

Thanks. Yes, I know it was an EPA thing, and connected to CAFE, but I didn't know the details.

During the summer, if you keep the A/C controls on max/recirculate, it overrides the system, and you don't have to push the button.

There are some aftermarket devices to override the system, but I'd personally rather not mess with them because they may void the warranty on the electronics.

I'm also a very patient person, especially behind the wheel, and some things I just don't let get to me. About the only things I REALLY dislike are overly-complex video screens and some versions of the E-joystick-and button-shifters.....particularly BMW's.

UDel

It was a mistake for Lexus to kill the GS but the GS was never a very big seller for Lexus anywhere. The LS is pretty much the face of Lexus, the first Lexus luxury car, the car that made the brand. I don't see them giving up the LS sedan formula unless Lexus is giving up competing in the luxury market and just wants to be a premium lame CUV company. There is no reason Toyota/Lexus can't learn their lesson with the LS500 disaster and give buyers the car they wanted. Sedans sell by the millions every year, they are nowhere close to dead, they may have peaked years ago but does not mean there is not still a huge market for them, coupes and sports cars sell in minuscule numbers yet automakers still build them, they see profit in them or they have passion for them. Automakers still have many people with passion who don't want their lineups full of only dumpy CUV's to try to turn the biggest profits or lame EV's to appease clueless politicians.

UDel

They still sell millions of sedans a year, they are still very popular, at least the models people like that are good packages, not too overpriced. It is somewhat understandable the Avalon would be killed, don't think it was ever a big seller or at least compared to Camry's and ES's and the ES has basically taken the place of the Avalon but I doubt many more will be getting axed, GM and Ford have not had much luck with sedans for over a decade, other brands do much better. They have not made sedans that good looking, they haven't given them much of anything for rear seat passengers aside from the really expensive lux sedans. If they gave more common sedans like Accords, Camry's, Avalon's, etc AWD for the people who think they need awd to drive in the little snow they get each year sales would increase even more.

mmarshall

Agreed. I've been saying that for years.

tex2670

Right. Just like a Sienna SE is "sporty".

Toys4RJill

Camry and Avalon already have awd.

LexBob2

I think sometimes these two w/AWD are overlooked. Having a n/a 4 cylinder doesn't help.

Toys4RJill

Yes. True. But how well the V6 awd Lacrosse and V6 awd Impala work out?

situman

Depends on marketing right? Subaru is a great example. AWD in all its models except for the BRZ.

Toys4RJill

I guess Toyota owns part of Subaru. And how many of the awd models are large V6 sedan?

situman

They may not have a V6, but they have turbo engines that more than makes up for the power deficit. Does the ES, Avalon and Camry have that option in their AWD specs?

Toys4RJill

I don’t think Toyota wants to do turbo in sedans for the United States. And no way Subaru I4t in the
Impreza are making Toyota V6 power. No way!!!!

I don’t think Lacrosse or Impala did very well with awd and I4 turbos

tex2670

Subaru has AWD baked into their DNA over decades. Toyota or Chevy rolling out availability of AWD on a few sedans isn't really a fair comparison.

My dad owned an '83 Subaru wagon; he opted to pass on the AWD option for some dumb reason.

Toys4RJill

Toyota had awd in their Camry and Corollas in the past. 1980s and 90s

mmarshall

Your Dad may have been wiser than you think. The old FWD Subarus available in the U.S. were not only only anvil-like in their durability (definitely more so than later Subarus, which had head-gasket, oil-consumption, CVT, and wheel-bearing problems), but also fewer parts in the drivetrain to fail....although Subaru admittedly does one of the best car-based AWD systems in the business. And the FWD itself, depending on the tires, gives decent winter traction, although, of course, not the same as AWD.