When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Toyota had awd in their Camry and Corollas in the past. 1980s and 90s
A couple of models, as a low volume option.
Subaru has offered AWD on virtually all models since the 1970s, and made it standard in the late 1980s or early 1990s. If you want to compare those 2, that's fine; personally, I don't think using Subaru as an AWD reference point really establishes anything.
Your Dad may have been wiser than you think. The old FWD Subarus available in the U.S. were not only only anvil-like in their durability (definitely more so than later Subarus, which had head-gasket, oil-consumption, CVT, and wheel-bearing problems), but also fewer parts in the drivetrain to fail....although Subaru admittedly does one of the best car-based AWD systems in the business. And the FWD itself, depending on the tires, gives decent winter traction, although, of course, not the same as AWD.
No, he was just cheap.
You are not wrong, but at the time, a FWD Subaru wasn't a better quality or reliable car than other Japanese rivals.
You are not wrong, but at the time, a FWD Subaru wasn't a better quality or reliable car than other Japanese rivals.
I'm generally refering to 80s and 90s models. I remember how well they were built.....I sampled someone test-drives, and the girl next door had one. It was like a tank....far more so than later models. although the Subaru flat-four boxer engines, in those days, were rough, unrefined, and sounded like a meat grinder, especially wth some revs. I had a Mazda GLC at the time that was generally well-built, and her Subaru made it feel like a tin can.
After the early 2000s, Subaru quality seemed to drop, because cost-cutting set in with the corporate line of thinking, and Subarus lost many of their features and quality. The partnership with L.L. Bean, which had given them some their top-trim models, was also cancelled.
Anyhow, back to the thread-topic Avalon. Did your Dad ever have one?......they were most popular with older folks.
I have the 19' Avalon Touring, I like everything about the car except for two things. One, the way they tuned the acceleration is very laggy/not responsive, you really have to stomp on the pedal to get it going. I could fix that by getting a Pedal commander. Two, it feels a little more cramp than previous Gen Avalons.
Other than those two issues, its a good car. Its pretty luxurious, has all the tech and safety features, handles pretty well for a big car and good on gas. I hope the value of mine goes up after Toyota cancels it but I doubt it.
Anyhow, back to the thread-topic Avalon. Did your Dad ever have one?......they were most popular with older folks.
No - my dad would never have spent the extra money to move up to an Avalon (or a Cressida before it); besides, by the time the kids were out of the house, the Avalon was a way bigger car than he needed. Subaru was replaced by multiple Acura Integras; then an Acura CL coupe; then Honda CR-Vs. He was also not a fan of cars with a cushy-style ride.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
although the Subaru flat-four boxer engines, in those days, were rough, unrefined, and sounded like a meat grinder, especially wth some revs.
Correct. If you floored the '83 Subie, it needed a few seconds to think before moving forward.
They still sell millions of sedans a year, they are still very popular, at least the models people like that are good packages, not too overpriced. It is somewhat understandable the Avalon would be killed, don't think it was ever a big seller or at least compared to Camry's and ES's and the ES has basically taken the place of the Avalon but I doubt many more will be getting axed, GM and Ford have not had much luck with sedans for over a decade, other brands do much better. They have not made sedans that good looking, they haven't given them much of anything for rear seat passengers aside from the really expensive lux sedans. If they gave more common sedans like Accords, Camry's, Avalon's, etc AWD for the people who think they need awd to drive in the little snow they get each year sales would increase even more.
Sure, but the segment is shrinking not growing, which is why it makes sense to offer fewer products in that segment to handle that demand.
The selling proposition of crossovers is not just AWD, in fact look at how many 2WD crossovers they sell.
It doesnt have to make V6 level of power. It has more instant torque down low in the RPM, which is important for power sapping AWD vehicles.
True...but the feel of a V6 is what most consumers enjoy. And marketing always favors horsepower the Subaru Legacy has two engines, the smaller one makes 20 less hp than the I4 Camry awd. And is the same displacement.
I own a C class Mercedes fourmatic - and my 2013 Avalon DOUBLES its space ( or so it feels ) and since I mount every Thanksgiving - 16" (on factory Camry rims which look oh so appropriate) winter tires / Nokia Hakkapelitta R2's - it can go anywhere the four wheel drive Mercedes goes in the ice/snow -
I also own a (lowered) IS350 - which runs fairly well and the Avalon keeps right up ! People complain about FWD wheelspin but every St. Patricks Day, the winter tires come off and I mount my 18" Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R's on the big Toyota ! (super sticky SUMMER ONLY rubber) Those hoops manage to get most of the Avalons 268 hp to the ground . . . well enough to surprise more than one rice boy at a redlight : )
Big GRINS -
but - best of all { as the Jalopnik writer pointed out } the SAME hooligan BEHAVIOR in my IS350 translates to RED FLASHING LIGHTS, in my several years of "playing' - 9 out of 10 police officers ignore the big Avalon as if it was a minivan full of screaming kids !
They would rather not deal with a Grandpamobile where the antique driver wants to argue they weren't speeding because their "sense" of how fast they are going is numbed by their old age and the . . "big old sedan they typically choose to drive and bump into every curb and parked car on the planet" !!! To the cop, it simply isn't worth the aggravation. . . .and WHO wants to ticket Grandma . . .?! Really ?! No one, so the Avalon gets a pass!
SCORE.
Oh and it gets BETTER gas mileage than the Mercedes -OR- the IS350.
did I mention -ON REGULAR GAS . . . more savings!
No - it is NOT a head turner, but it IS a rock solid, cheap to drive, inexpensive to repair and insure - Hey, it is a very CAPABLE car (within the limits of FWD of course).
I have to say, bang-for-buck - its a SUPERIOR automobile.
I have NO excuse for the ridiculous redesign which I like on the Camry but looks terrible on the Avalon - but bear in mind, the 2013 - 2017 are identical mechanically and available for pennies on the dollar compared to Lexus/ German choices . . .
I have NO excuse for the ridiculous redesign which I like on the Camry but looks terrible on the Avalon - but bear in mind, the 2013 - 2017 are identical mechanically and available for pennies on the dollar compared to Lexus/ German choices . . .
I am glad I have mine
I agree the redesign looks much better on the Camry than on the Avalon. I'm one of those for whom the new Avalon's styling—not just the grille but the awkward change of beltline angle behind the back door—is a deal breaker.
But the 2013–2017 is absolutely NOT identical mechanically to the new one (depending in part on what you mean by "mechanically"). Even beyond the new transmission and the extra 30 hp from updated fuel injection, the whole platform was completely overhauled for 2018-19. That results in completely different suspension geometry, greater frame rigidity, and a whole complex of other consequences that, everyone agrees, makes the new car behaviorally much more modern than the old one.
That said I very much prefer the looks of the old one, and I do agree it's a great used car buy. I've recommended it as a used car to others more than once, including to people shopping for new cars in other classes. It says a lot about the fate of the model that despite all its virtues, I haven't been able to find any takers.
Best Avalon ever was the 05-12 model. Rode like a dream. Was big and spacious. Had a huge back seat. Lots of headroom. Lots of features. Massive trunk. All the tech one needed at the time.
Best Avalon ever was the 05-12 model. Rode like a dream. Was big and spacious. Had a huge back seat. Lots of headroom. Lots of features. Massive trunk. All the tech one needed at the time.
Absolutely the 1Gen was the best. IMO, its only flaw (as long as you kept the oil changed) was the lack of the wood-trim interior that later versions had..but it made top for that in being the best-built, using the most solid materials, the best instrument panel, and very little cheap plastic.
Best Avalon ever was the 05-12 model. Rode like a dream. Was big and spacious. Had a huge back seat. Lots of headroom. Lots of features. Massive trunk. All the tech one needed at the time.
08-05-21, 07:34 AM
IMO, its only flaw (as long as you kept the oil changed) was the lack of the wood-trim interior that later versions had..but it made top for that in being the best-built, using the most solid materials, the best instrument panel, and very little cheap plastic.
