We have many cars with a key. And one new 21 model with a button. I’d rather have the key IMO.

 

Lexs...glad to see I'm not the only one.

 

I have keyless door locks at home and in the cars. Never have to dig out a key, which is great.

This is something you're just going to have to get past, as everything has push button start

 

Well he's got some time to get past the push button start system. Plenty of cars produced in the last few years have a key. Nothing wrong with a key.

Anyways, all are good choices seeing as how they are Toyota products. Since they are all used, there may not be any real price difference between the ES and the Camry or Avalon. The ES got re-designed for 2013 and, from what I've learned, not quite as smooth as before. Also loads of tech and the start of that spindle grille. However, it does not have the sticky dash issue that the 07-12 generation had. Something to keep in mind. If I were buying a used sedan I would forget the Camry and Avalon and look straight to an ES.

Can I ask why you'd consider switching back to a sedan? I also have been driving nothing but sedans but I find that with my family, an SUV might be a better choice going forward. Much more versatility and better comfort. Funny, I was also looking into 2008-2009 RX models. This after I heavily considered a 10-12 ES.

 

Xjoker...
i kinda miss the drive of a car. I've had the rx for 3 years now. It drives well, does well in snow too, but i like the feeling of a car, find it better planted to the ground, less leaning on curves. The rx is very comfortable, roomy and good visibility (better then my wifes x1, i have to say).
as i said, i had an older camry before and loved how it drove. I'm sure with good winter tires the cars will do well in snow.
I'd imagine that it would also feel a little quicker as they cars are fwd vs awd of my suv??
fab

 

Yes a car is always going to be faster and more planted than an SUV. It just depends what you value in life. A sedan isn't very practical for a family. It can be done but it's kind of a hassle. And don't ever let anyone tell you that you need AWD for snowy conditions. I've had many FWD cars and I've driven in quite a bit of snow, going to mountains and such on trips around the country. Never had any issues. I did wreck my '05 Camry a few years ago in the snow but I had really bald tires. Great winter tires and common sense will do just fine with a FWD car. AWD is overrated, adds to the complexity of the car, and decreases gas mileage.

The 05-12 Avalon is a great choice. Tons of room with great amenities. Seeing as how the market hates FWD sedans from 10-15 years ago, you might be able to find a great deal on one of these.

 

I disagree that (permanent) awd is overrated. What I like about the full-time system and my SUVs Is that it is impossible to spin the tires. Every single possible terrain, It’s full time wheel drive system keeps it so well planted and secure. For example, light rain, loose gravel, light snow, anything….there is so much traction. I do agree that all wheel drive without snow tires is overrated. Yes it does I had complexity and does decrease gas mileage, but I am willing to pay for that

 

That's why i mentioned avalon and maybe ES for more cargo room. Agreed, an suv had its advantages in terms of cargo room. It's funny...we usually take the rx over the bmw for trips as the rx has more cargo room. I think the cara mentioned would do well for trips as well. Maybe not for hauling large items, but for luggages it should be ok.
i think awd is a little overrated these days, i think that fwd with good snow tires will do okay. Mechanically, there are less components to deal with, and weight too!
i will say that awd on a car VS an suv are quite different. I've been in audi wagon and even subaru sedans and the awd on them was really good. I think that it's tricky with suv's as i find they slide out or in the rx, the Yaw control kicks in and kills the engine. I don't like it, same issue with our forester we had, would slide out on turns.
fab

 

Agreed. I actually prefer a key...it's easier to select the ON/ACC/OFF/START positions at a glance. With a button, you have tiny yellow and green lights that go on and off.

 

Not always. The AWD system on my Outback was superb even on Bridgestone all-seasons. I never once spun my tires matter how bad the winter conditions.

 

Mmarshall, agreed. I hate it on my wife's x1. Turn off engine (button) and get out of car..radio still playing. I think it will shut off on its own but i usually Lock doors to turn everything off. With a key, it's either on or off...period.
as well am i the only one who doesn't like the big center touchscreen that controls Everything???
just give me old-school buttons, *****. I'll be very happy with that. Less tech please.
fab

 

One of the very rare areas where we may disagree. All else equal, AWD does add complexity and decrease gas mileage....but Subaru, particularly on the older systems with the mechanical LSD, had a superb AWD system which, in my experience, would go through just about anything even without winter tires. I was constantly amazed at its capabilities in rain, snow, sleet, blizzards, and even ice.

 

Mmarshall, a few years back, i test drove a 2007 or 8, subaru legacy wagon. It had relatively new all-season tires. This was in dead of winter with a good amount of snow on the ground. I have to say, i was impressed at how it handled, it didn't brake loss! Totally opposite of the forester..it fishtailed a lot on turns...short track+higher center of gravity....not good.

 

Mmarshall...i just remembered my brothers old 1993 subaru legacy turbo sedan...it drank gas like a fish but the awd on that thing! It was a tank in winter, and that turbo whistling, made it a blast to drive!

 

To be fair I've never driven a car that had AWD. I just honestly think FWD is just fine but that's all I've ever driven.