When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Great post Bit, you are right in that they do seem to do their own thing with the offerings you mentioned. It’s really not a bad thing to have choices, right now they just aren’t the choice for me anymore. Maybe in the future they will or maybe I will want another BOF vehicle again when I don’t need to maximize space anymore or desire a “performance” SUV.
thank you, and understand. i only became a lexus owner again because of the one of a kind LC500. i was not interested in the rest of the offerings, but i can see it IS getting better. the new NX looks like a solid offering. but clearly (to me at least), Lexus is not moving fast or boldly enough.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Great post Bit.
I agree Lexus has worked hard to differentiate themselves. I think the brand is no more appealing than it was in the 1990s or early 2000s. I do know you like the GS 400, I respect that t
thanks. it may be 'no more appealing' than back then but that to me means lexus isn't advancing and yes is underinvested.
I don’t agree they Lexus is under invested as they are doing extremely well with their sales worldwide.
lexus sales have grown primarily because they're now selling in more countries, not because of product line expansion or growth in their original markets.
The future of Lexus will be with their dominance in hybrid tech….and we should see them become a force when the battery EVs start to get to a viable market point. Toyota will change their tune on battery EVs. I’m excited to find out the deets on their new Lexus EV that is coming soon to a dealer near you
i agree lexus will evolve hybrid tech across the board, and make it less of a feeling of compromise and greater refinement. and plugin hybrids allow people who really don't drive a whole lot to be able to do their work commute and errands perhaps with battery only, and still have the ICE/battery hybrid combo for long distance with quick fill ups.
they DO need to get at least one EV out soon though, because it's an expected innovation. if they don't get one out until 2025 for example, EV development at other brands could begin to really dominate the luxury space.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
The IS500, LC500 and RCF are certainly enthusiast vehicles but they are niche models,
most enthusiast cars are niche models pretty much by definition because mainstream consumers aren't enthusiasts and don't care about limited slip differentials, growling exhausts or even great acceleration or handling.
They have extremely thin high end offerings.
enthusiast and high end offerings are two different things. of course they can be both, like a E63, M5 or something. lexus has never had a large range of offerings (compared to mb/bmw/audi) and is unlikely to in the future either except during a likely bulging product line as they transition from ICE to EVs.
lexus (through toyota) continues to march to its own drummer and be a highly profitable division.
most enthusiast cars are niche models pretty much by definition because mainstream consumers aren't enthusiasts and don't care about limited slip differentials, growling exhausts or even great acceleration or handling.
enthusiast and high end offerings are two different things. of course they can be both, like a E63, M5 or something..
Lets remember that Lexus is supposed to be a tier 1 luxury brand. High end is well within their wheelhouse. I don't agree that enthusiast cars have to be "high end". The IS in its lowest trim is an enthusiast car, as is a 3 Series, 5 Series, X3, X5, C Class, E Class, GLC, GLE, A4, A6, A5 the list goes on. These are cars on proper RWD platforms that are super rigid (arguable about the Audis) with sophisticated multi-link suspension setups, sophisticated steering setups, excellent weight distrubution. Their design prioritizes driving experience over economy at the foundation even if the majority of their buyers don't know the difference.
Lexus doesn't have that anymore. The bulk of their offerings, and ALL their new offerings are FWD/transverse cars with inexpensive macpherson strut suspensions that share most of their suspension, platform, powertrains with downmarket Toyota models. People throw out "Well BMW has the 2 Series" and "Mercedes has the CLA"...yeah but Mercedes also has the 7 Series and the X5 and the 8 Series, and Mercedes also has the E Class and the GLE etc. I don't have a problem with their being economical offerings that have a lot of broad appeal and have a low barrier of entry as long as real substantial quality luxury and performance cars also are offered.
The other point is, you need those proper foundation models to build truly exceptional enthusiast trims off of. Without a 3 Series, there is no M3 Comp...
exus has never had a large range of offerings (compared to mb/bmw/audi) and is unlikely to in the future either except during a likely bulging product line as they transition from ICE to EVs
But they had the right offerings. There was an IS that was a good option (now its pretty outdated), there was a GS that was a viable option, there was an LS that was competitive, there was the SC that was a good option. These cars took the concept of a proper high end enthusiasts vehicle and put Lexus' own spin and feel on them...and I miss that.
What we have are mainly veneer luxury cars that are really Toyota models and a smattering of cars that are truly proper luxury vehicles but they are in niche places that aren't accessible to the bulk of consumers. For instance, very few people want or can live with an awesome coupe or convertible, but they have that. The market for an LX style BOF vehicle is slim, but they have that. Where most buyers are, which is in a crossover 2 row or 3 row configuration or a sedan...they have nothing to offer. Its bizarre.
Lets remember that Lexus is supposed to be a tier 1 luxury brand.
says who? i've never felt that was true because they just don't have a broad enough line-up.
I don't agree that enthusiast cars have to be "high end".
that's what i wrote in other words. "enthusiast and high end offerings are two different things."
yeah but Mercedes also has the 7 Series and the X5 and the 8 Series,
assume you meant bmw.
But they had the right offerings. There was an IS that was a good option (now its pretty outdated), there was a GS that was a viable option, there was an LS that was competitive, there was the SC that was a good option.
oh i agree... i wrote somewhere on here that lexus has underinvested for 2 decades.
What we have are mainly veneer luxury cars that are really Toyota models and a smattering of cars that are truly proper luxury vehicles but they are in niche places that aren't accessible to the bulk of consumers.
well stated and why i don't consider lexus 'tier 1'.
Where most buyers are, which is in a crossover 2 row or 3 row configuration or a sedan...they have nothing to offer. Its bizarre.
well they don't have usable 3 row but they certainly have a bunch of 2 row crossovers.
says who? i've never felt that was true because they just don't have a broad enough line-up.
Says them lol. Their whole proposition when starting was to build the best car in the world and offer what the germans offered for less money.
well stated and why i don't consider lexus 'tier 1'.
Nor do I any longer, but they absolutely were up until around 5-6 years ago.
well they don't have usable 3 row but they certainly have a bunch of 2 row crossovers.
Not proper luxury ones they don't. The RX and NX are on transverse FWD platforms with macpherson strut suspensions, same as mainstream vehicles...thats my point. They don't have anything that offers what the Germans and Genesis do, a proper luxury RWD platform with sophisticated multilink suspensions you find in a truly upscale car.
I would buy for instance a QX60 or MDX or something like that for my wife to drive as a family vehicle, but never for me myself to drive as my primary vehicle, I just have no interest in going back to that sort of less sophisticated mainstream style vehicle. I would however buy an X7 or GLS or GX80 or something like that for myself to drive, because thats the sort of sophisticated high end vehicle i like to drive. Lexus doesnt have anything like that, and they should. They have a great platform and engine for it.
I will be to first one to say that I have hard time accepting the change in Lexus direction. I would bet there are tens of thousands of Lexus enthusiasts out there that share my frustrarion. I do agree that BEV will change everything but BEV is so far away at this point and RZ will be another meh Toyota derivative in more attractive clothing and comfort options. In last ten years Lexus didn't do much, it stagnated, milked the cow and it managed to hurt and degrade it's own flaghsip the most impostant model - LS. Not because of 5LS, which I think is the best car in it's class (500h model) together with G11 745e, but becuase 4LS went too long and have made Lexus miss the step in technology evolution both gasoline powertrain and driver/comfort technologies. New 750i has bumped power to 523hp and no 3.5 twin turbo V6 can ever catch that. Due to lack of powetrain investments they had to let got all of their RWD portfolio because those cars literally don't have any proper engine that can be attached to them besides 5.0 V8 which is enthusiasts only. Toyota is abolsutely at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to turbo game, even new NX with it's own exclusive 2.4 turbo engine is nothing spectacular. It's as pedestrian as it can get. Great for Toyota, not good enough for Lexus. And unfortunately same will happen with 3.5TT hybrid which was developed for the purposes of Toyota's big SUVs and the truck.
After all when all the biggest hype in a very, very long time comes from a Rav4 reskin (no matter how deep, but it's not RX deep that's for sure) you can tell they have shifted focus from competing with Germans. It's hard to accept that F badge is dead, RWD cars are dead, no RWD CUV is ever coming out and that their flagship V8TT engine will not see light of the day. Curtain call for OG and dedicated Lexus products. That's hard to accept. Really hard.
It's always fun reading comments on a new model on CL. I don't mind the script at all. Unlike Kia, it's very readable. Buyers won't care and non buyers won't give jack. If they can make money with the GX and LX, this will sell regardless. It's still hard to judge now but this still looks far better than the tail from the new IS.
It's always fun reading comments on a new model on CL. I don't mind the script at all. Unlike Kia, it's very readable. Buyers won't care and non buyers won't give jack. If they can make money with the GX and LX, this will sell regardless. It's still hard to judge now but this still looks far better than the tail from the new IS.
So it's tomorrow? It's already Oct 13 in Asia.
I saw pix of the new NX on the Lexus website - same thing. "L E X U S" spelled out on the back, logo on front. Just like Porsche.
10-10-21 | 06:14 PM
