SW17LS

I can’t name one person I know who likes the process of buying a car. Not even me, and I’m as close to an expert as one can be. I respect your internal “surveys” show that people are satisfied with the service they got within the confines of the process, but that doesn’t mean that they like the process. If 90% of people really liked the process this discussion wouldn’t exist.

Also, every car dealer I have ever dealt with has all but begged me to give them high marks on those surveys to the point where I felt like I was killing their dog if I gave them a 9 and not a 10. So I would venture to say those surveys tell you nothing accurately.

I like dealerships because I can negotiate them against each other and that benefits me because I pay less. If I can’t do that any longer and it’s gonna be MSRP, I don’t want to go through that process. What’s the point?

jallen4

Well, here is a new one for you. You have now heard from someone who likes buying cars. I buy a number of new cars in my retirement and rather enjoy the process.

On the other hand, I can assure you no-one in the business enjoys selling cars to self professed "close to an expert" folks. Another news flash, your not...it is called delusional!

SW17LS

And you also are/were in the car dealership business, so you're hardly a member of the general public. There is a reason why "car salesperson" is one of the least respected professions on earth, people hate the process of buying cars. You don't believe that and I'm the one who is delusional?! You think your "please please PLEASE give me all 10s or I wont be able to feed my family!" survey results have any value? Thats delusional lol

Millennials ESPECIALLY aren't interested in that, and they're the largest group of new car buyers and will be for the next couple of decades. Ignore their desires at your peril.

And I am very experienced in negotiating and buying new cars, I have done it many times in my life (I buy a new car for myself about every other year) and help others do it, including people on this site (I negotiate 5-6 new car purchases every year). I am actually great to deal with for car salespeople. I'm a salesperson myself and am not one of those people who believes that car salespeople and dealers don't deserve to earn any profit or don't deserve respect. When I'm ready to buy, you can sell me a car in 10 minutes.

But...people who want to take advantage of me and sell be a bunch of worthless BS and make me think a deal is in my interest when its not...then no they wont like me.

Your responses here and attitude here reinforce every negative sentiment we all have towards your business.

Example?

Talk about a slimeball car salesman comment. How about you work to improve the image of your profession and show doubters that they're wrong about you?

ArmyofOne

I understand EVERY BIT of that relationship.

"All they need to do is pay what the dealer asks" ??

Really?????? I went to a Ram dealer for service not long ago. They had a Ram TRX in the showroom with an MSRP of $94,xxx. Off to the side of the window sticker, it had a list of "dealer added features" like window tint ($499.99), wheel locks ($599.99), Nitrogen tire fill ($399.99) and a few others, along with a ADM +$50,000. So the total price of the vehicle would have been over $150,000 had I wanted to buy it by "just paying the dealer what they're asking". How, in the name of blue **** is that fair to consumers? It isn't. Nobody pays $500 for window tint unless its the super expensive ceramic stuff, and even then, that's a stretch. Wheel locks (OEM are McGard), are $55 on Amazon. Nitrogen tire fill for $400? Discount tire will remove the air from your tires and refill with nitrogen for $25ea. Tell me that isn't highway robbery, and I have some oceanfront property up in Oklahoma i think you might be interested in. And it isn't just that ram. Every car on the lot at that dealer, and then ford dealer next to it had one of these ADM's on it. some were only $5k, and one was as high as $98,000 (a Ford GT in the Ford Showroom). There were also a number of roush mustangs they had not been able to sell, and they too were marked up. So if the dealer can ask whatever they want, we are just supposed to pay it? Who's the delusional one here?

Bingo. Buying a car is an infuriating process. I have bought and sold ~60 cars in the last 20 years. This is more than most people buy in a lifetime. I hate it so much that I actually am considering using a broker, and paying THEM extra money just so I don't have to deal with it when I am ready to buy my Viper. I just want to make a phone call, rattle off what I am looking for, and write a check when I take delivery. Why can't it just be that simple?
Play games with me at a dealership, I will not only walk out on the sale, but I will absolutely blast you by name on every social media outlet there is. Not just "XYZ Ford was doing this this and this", but "so-and-so at XYZ Ford did this". Then, I will have all of my friends go in there, and pretend like they are interested in buying, just to get to the very end and walk out on the sale. I can play games too, the difference is, I am ****ing ruthless, cunning and will do whatever it takes to waste as much of your time as possible, just because I can. I know many people, most of whom would not mind wasting a half day screwing over a shady salesman to help me. I could literally keep it going, daily, probably for months. Oops. Does that make me an *******? You betcha. What does that make you, though?

Same. I buy and sell cars like some folks change underwear. And the only experiences that have been painless were private sales or auctions.

Good, we don't like buying them from you. And I am to the point where I won't anymore. The only thing on this planet worse than a new car dealer, is a used car dealer.

mmarshall

I liked the way Saturn used to do it, but that's probably water over the dam now, partly because Saturn itself is gone, and partly because the car-market right now is so skewed that even the typical policies and processes of a just a year ago pretty much don't apply any more.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i've bought cars in several states, always the same b.s.

then you mention "sticker"... as you know, many dealers not put THEIR OWN stickers on the cars, with "dealer packages", extra "dealer fees" and (especially these days) extra "dealer markup". so the "sticker" isn't even msrp, it's WAY WAY higher.

as far as paying sticker making the deal "real simple" sure, and then the dealer does the hard sell on things like these on top:
- nitrogen in the tires
- upholstry/paint protection
- ppf
- rust protection (please)
- tire/wheel insurance
- maintenance plans
- pinstriping (ugh)
- on, and on, and on....

you took the blue pill a long time ago, i can't help you if you believe that. as pointed out, sales people will beg to have those surveys "all 10s" or "they'll get fired" or "won't get paid" or "won't be able to pay their bills" or whatever other guilt trips... there's no bottom to the tricks.

i don't pretend to know all the tricks you had but i know when the dealer "had fun messing with" me, and the fun usually starts before i've said a thing.

i do recognize that many consumers are difficult, including those who just aren't serious about buying anything.

it is an adversarial system basically.

you're in the real estate business, and i expect a far higher percentage of people are actually satisfied by their realtor's efforts. sure some realtors are lazy, some play games, but many bend over backwards to help buyers and sellers get what they want. i've only done a half dozen real estate transactions, but i'd rate all of them FAR more professionally handled and satisfying than any car dealer transaction.

a friend also ran dealerships and enjoys the process too because like you, he's an 'expert'. of course he still expects preferential treatment, a MUCH better deal than the average consumer would ever get.

haha, so true.

exactly... they prefer gullible suckers.

SW17LS

And we try consciously to elevate our profession because we understand the negative image consumers have of us.

mmarshall

Simple numbers. You can spin it all you want, but all else equal, the more one has in the bank, the less he or she is likely to need public assistance or be a draw on the economy.

Some people (I won't name names) consider this simple capitalism, a Seller's Market, and Supply-and-Demand. However, Josh, I tend to agree with you. Enough is Enough. This is not 1920s-Germany, where people had to roll a wheelbarrow-full of Marks down to the bakery to bring home a simple loaf of bread....and get the Marks stolen in the process. There is a difference between capitalistic supply/demand and taking undue advantage of people....especially gullible people. One is simple business.....the other, IMO, is an immoral action.

Oh, and BTW, you are correct about $25 Nitrogen tire-fills. My brother got that package on his Kia Sportage, at the dealership, for something like $5 or $10 a tire....it was ridiculously cheap. $400 is ludicrous.

SW17LS

As usual you are completely off the subject. We aren’t talking about public assistance or draws on the economy. We’re talking about what companies who manufacturer products care about, and it’s who actually buys their product.

mmarshall

You, not me, brought up the issue of bank-accounts adding to, or subtracting from the economy. I merely clarified it with my reply.

But I agree that larger issues are involved here. What Josh saw at the Stellantis-dealer, on that new Ram, is nothing short of ludicrous. They wanted, in effect, 150K...more than even your S-550 was worth.

Toys4RJill

I sort of disagree with you. People don’t really like buying cars…it’s not the dealer. Here is why IMO. First off people fall for the BS marketing of cars…so they believe they need this brand or that brand....then you have the fact that cars are depreciating assets, so with that knowledge everyone “knows” that new cars are bad for you. Then you have to deal with then second largest expense in the household, nobody likes to part with $40,000…then you have car payments…most people either have car payments for the rest of their lives or they have payments for 5-7 years and then the stop for a little while and then they start again…so then there is interest on those car payments..anyone who says paying interest is great on a depreciating asset is not playing with a full deck..so then the person is at the dealer, the facility is designed to assist with the purchase not detract from it…in a dealer that has nice new Mercedes cars, one feels good, they forget about the outside world for a while, they deal with a trendy well dressed man/woman/non binary or whatever and this salesperson is supposed to talk to them in a special way that is designed to make them forget that they are about to purchase a car, that is likely more expensive that they need, requires interest to get the loan, might or might not have mileage restrictions and is a depreciating asset. (What a horrible concept). Many buyers also have the problem in that the current car they has is worn down, is out warranty and may need a major repair…so the pressure is on.

so, you add up all of the above and I haven’t even got to shady dealers that do weird stuff…the internet and buying on line is not going to solve the issues above and make people feel better. So the majority of buyers just won’t buy a new car they will talk themselves out of a new car unless one is absolutely required.

Buyers have an equal responsibility in the whole debate…most people want to ring out every single possible dollar as evidence in some of the posts in this forum.

Buyers are instinctively on guard at dealers because there usually is so much money on the line.

SW17LS

Thats not true. You were the one who brought up the money built up in accounts by Baby Boomers, not me. The point stands, we're talking about consumer behavior, not savings or ability to withstand marked downturns, etc. Its how much people spend on things like cars and homes, and millennials spend more than baby boomers as a function of where they are in their life cycle.

Its an S560, and there we go talking about how much it costs again.

It really is the dealer. Most people are excited about getting a new car, its the process of buying it they hate.

Buyers have a role in it too, but as a business you can't control how your customers behave, you can only provide a great service and your customers will come around. Buyers act the way they do because the terrible process they have been subjected to by car dealers has taught them to be that way.

mmarshall

OK, 560....sorry for the typo.

Much of the discussion in this entire thread has been about vehicle prices, though.



My Verano purchase went quite smoothly...I didn't have to order it, but bought it right out of the showroom after a test drive. In my last two experiences with new Buicks, though, GM itself, with its marketing practices and production delays, made the process a lot worse than the dealer. If you remember, the Lacrosse had to be re-ordered three times because of plant-retooling and a change in the standard powertrain from a V6 to a Hybrid-4, and a reduction in base price. While not everyone may agree with this, personally, I'd rather deal with a jerk of a salesman in the buying-process and have the factory handle the order smoothly, than have the dealership kiss one's a** on the deal, and then have the factory screw it up.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

SW17LS, let the moderators do the moderating please.

MMarshall, having said that he has a point - let's reign it in, you keep wandering way off topic in this thread.

ArmyofOne and Jallen4 - knock off the personal commentary.

ArmyofOne

Will do Dave. Apologies.



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