Dealership Practices
09-24-21, 03:05 PM
#91
Lexus Champion
Why not? Because...
1) Most Americans aren't willing to wait a few months.
2) With today's two-job, smash-your-***** economy, mamy people will lose their job if their car fails them more than once or twice. Once their (usually old) car fails them more than once or twice, they're not able to wait a few months. (This is also why most people can't obey the shame-the-poor scolds like Dave Ramsey and buy only used cars, because usually only a new car dealer will sell to you for $0 down, and 1/3 of Americans don't have $400; look it up.)
3) People like to think they "got a deal," which is why most dealerships who try no-haggle soon abandon it because customers merely use them for a quote and then buy down the street from someone who gives discounts.
4) Dealer associations are entrenched in their lobbying power in nearly all states. Trying to run them out will be like trying to exterminate kudzu.
1) Most Americans aren't willing to wait a few months.
2) With today's two-job, smash-your-***** economy, mamy people will lose their job if their car fails them more than once or twice. Once their (usually old) car fails them more than once or twice, they're not able to wait a few months. (This is also why most people can't obey the shame-the-poor scolds like Dave Ramsey and buy only used cars, because usually only a new car dealer will sell to you for $0 down, and 1/3 of Americans don't have $400; look it up.)
3) People like to think they "got a deal," which is why most dealerships who try no-haggle soon abandon it because customers merely use them for a quote and then buy down the street from someone who gives discounts.
4) Dealer associations are entrenched in their lobbying power in nearly all states. Trying to run them out will be like trying to exterminate kudzu.
09-24-21, 03:30 PM
#92
Lexus Fanatic
09-24-21, 04:20 PM
#93
09-24-21, 04:26 PM
#95
Dysfunctional Veteran
Why not? Because...
1) Most Americans aren't willing to wait a few months.
2) With today's two-job, smash-your-***** economy, mamy people will lose their job if their car fails them more than once or twice. Once their (usually old) car fails them more than once or twice, they're not able to wait a few months. (This is also why most people can't obey the shame-the-poor scolds like Dave Ramsey and buy only used cars, because usually only a new car dealer will sell to you for $0 down, and 1/3 of Americans don't have $400; look it up.)
3) People like to think they "got a deal," which is why most dealerships who try no-haggle soon abandon it because customers merely use them for a quote and then buy down the street from someone who gives discounts.
4) Dealer associations are entrenched in their lobbying power in nearly all states. Trying to run them out will be like trying to exterminate kudzu.
1) Most Americans aren't willing to wait a few months.
2) With today's two-job, smash-your-***** economy, mamy people will lose their job if their car fails them more than once or twice. Once their (usually old) car fails them more than once or twice, they're not able to wait a few months. (This is also why most people can't obey the shame-the-poor scolds like Dave Ramsey and buy only used cars, because usually only a new car dealer will sell to you for $0 down, and 1/3 of Americans don't have $400; look it up.)
3) People like to think they "got a deal," which is why most dealerships who try no-haggle soon abandon it because customers merely use them for a quote and then buy down the street from someone who gives discounts.
4) Dealer associations are entrenched in their lobbying power in nearly all states. Trying to run them out will be like trying to exterminate kudzu.
Used car dealers like carmax do zero down all the time, if you have decent credit. I have bought many many many used cars with zero down. My wife's Accord and my LS included. USAA loaned me $10k to buy the LS (12 y/o at the time) at 2.9% for 36 months, who on earth wouldn't take that? I'll invest my money in other things that don't depreciate, and I did, then paid it off in about 6 months with the profits.
as for not wanting to wait, the 5P's will solve most of that:
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss-Poor
Performance
If one plans ahead, one doesn't have to wait until their car is a money-pit. According to my research, your reason #4 has more to do with it than the others.
Am I to understand that you don't consider this a good thesis topic? Do you not think the franchise dealership business model needs drastic change? I do. Especially with times changing the way they have in the last 2 years. In any case, your feedback on this topic is much appreciated
Last edited by ArmyofOne; 09-24-21 at 07:09 PM.
09-24-21, 04:33 PM
#96
09-24-21, 06:15 PM
#97
Lexus Fanatic
Its just a very challenging time to be a buyer. Just wait this out if you can
09-24-21, 07:01 PM
#98
Another poster noted the other day in a related thread that Lexus dealers anecdotally have gone to no-haggle pricing, presumably at MSRP, in the current shortages.
09-24-21, 07:09 PM
#99
In my research, I have found there is much much more to it that this, although some of these are key factors. The thing is, to my mind, if you don't have $400 to your name, you have no business buying a new brand new car. But, that's my opinion and opinion has no place in a thesis.
Used car dealers like carmax do zero down all the time, if you have decent credit. I have bought many many many used cars with zero down. My wife's Accord and my LS included. USAA loaned me $10k to buy the LS (12 y/o at the time) at 2.9% for 36 months, who on earth wouldn't take that? I'll invest my money in other things that don't depreciate, and I did, then paid it off in about 6 months with the profits.
as for not wanting to wait, the 5P's will solve most of that:
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss-Poor
Performance
If one plans ahead, one doesn't have to wait until their car is a money-pit. According to my research, your reason #4 has more to do with it than the others.
Am I to understand that you don't consider this a good thesis topic? Do you not think the franchise dealership business model needs drastic change? I do. Especially with times changing the way they have in the last 2 years.
I have not either
Used car dealers like carmax do zero down all the time, if you have decent credit. I have bought many many many used cars with zero down. My wife's Accord and my LS included. USAA loaned me $10k to buy the LS (12 y/o at the time) at 2.9% for 36 months, who on earth wouldn't take that? I'll invest my money in other things that don't depreciate, and I did, then paid it off in about 6 months with the profits.
as for not wanting to wait, the 5P's will solve most of that:
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss-Poor
Performance
If one plans ahead, one doesn't have to wait until their car is a money-pit. According to my research, your reason #4 has more to do with it than the others.
Am I to understand that you don't consider this a good thesis topic? Do you not think the franchise dealership business model needs drastic change? I do. Especially with times changing the way they have in the last 2 years.
I have not either
But I have to admit, some of your comments about working-class Americans leave me a bit uneasy. Comments like saying one-third of Americans "have no business" considering a new car (now, the implications of that statement for the auto industry are definitely a worthy topic for a thesis). Or that they don't have money because they're simply "****-poor planners." Many pressed their old car to the wall because it was a new car or the rent.
Without trying to suggest that everyone out there is savvy with money, I think the more central story is that we've gotten to a point as a nation where so many are so financially pressed, they HAVE to be brilliant money managers just to afford the middle-class basics that any working person could take for granted just a couple of decades ago. When I read that 1/3 of all Americans lack the cash to handle a $400 expense, the lesson I take away from it isn't that they're all inferior to me. Rather, it suggests to me that one can't live decently on the pay from clerking at Walmart and jockeying for Uber, which are the kinds of jobs our economy is creating. While I'm lucky enough to be in a financially comfortable position that's probably a little like yours, I'm very reluctant to be so severe in my judgment of others.
Last edited by LexFinally; 09-24-21 at 07:19 PM.
09-24-21, 07:27 PM
#100
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
there's so much material on CL for this. these 2 threads alone...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...practices.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nd-buying.html
and this guy's videos (Kevin Hunter) on car buying and all the tricks of the dealers trade are excellent.
example:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bLre5s2Yf9o
link to his channel but looks like CL doesn't display it right so will leave off protocol
youtube.com/c/KevinHunter
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...practices.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nd-buying.html
and this guy's videos (Kevin Hunter) on car buying and all the tricks of the dealers trade are excellent.
example:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bLre5s2Yf9o
link to his channel but looks like CL doesn't display it right so will leave off protocol
youtube.com/c/KevinHunter
Last edited by bitkahuna; 09-24-21 at 07:32 PM.
09-24-21, 07:59 PM
#101
Yeah I'm just going to wait it out.
I actually wound up chatting with the GM of a more local dealer and even after telling him what was going on with my Nori Green he had his Sales Manager send me a spec sheet for an incoming GX. The GM said they don't do any kind of markups, no BS fees, and no documentation fee. They will also deliver it to me for free as I'm within 200 miles of them.
He was a cool guy and when I told him that I had talked to them about a month ago the lady I was working with would say one thing then change it and told me they found a GX when they didn't that I just decided to keep looking. I told him if he didn't want to work with me because of that I totally understood.
He said thato was working with the new person and that she decided selling vehicles wasn't for her.
I believe I will get a GX at some point and am completely fine with not getting the Nori Green at this point.
09-24-21, 08:16 PM
#102
Dysfunctional Veteran
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about being able to buy used cars with zero down. You've made me better informed than when I started reading this thread.
But I have to admit, some of your comments about working-class Americans leave me a bit uneasy. Comments like saying one-third of Americans "have no business" considering a new car (now, the implications of that statement for the auto industry are definitely a worthy topic for a thesis). Or that they don't have money because they're simply "****-poor planners." Many pressed their old car to the wall because it was a new car or the rent.
Without trying to suggest that everyone out there is savvy with money, I think the more central story is that we've gotten to a point as a nation where so many are so financially pressed, they HAVE to be brilliant money managers just to afford the middle-class basics that any working person could take for granted just a couple of decades ago. When I read that 1/3 of all Americans lack the cash to handle a $400 expense, the lesson I take away from it isn't that they're all inferior to me. Rather, it suggests to me that one can't live decently on the pay from clerking at Walmart and jockeying for Uber, which are the kinds of jobs our economy is creating. While I'm lucky enough to be in a financially comfortable position that's probably a little like yours, I'm very reluctant to be so severe in my judgment of others.
But I have to admit, some of your comments about working-class Americans leave me a bit uneasy. Comments like saying one-third of Americans "have no business" considering a new car (now, the implications of that statement for the auto industry are definitely a worthy topic for a thesis). Or that they don't have money because they're simply "****-poor planners." Many pressed their old car to the wall because it was a new car or the rent.
Without trying to suggest that everyone out there is savvy with money, I think the more central story is that we've gotten to a point as a nation where so many are so financially pressed, they HAVE to be brilliant money managers just to afford the middle-class basics that any working person could take for granted just a couple of decades ago. When I read that 1/3 of all Americans lack the cash to handle a $400 expense, the lesson I take away from it isn't that they're all inferior to me. Rather, it suggests to me that one can't live decently on the pay from clerking at Walmart and jockeying for Uber, which are the kinds of jobs our economy is creating. While I'm lucky enough to be in a financially comfortable position that's probably a little like yours, I'm very reluctant to be so severe in my judgment of others.
As far as me being critical of others, I'll admit, my current financial situation is different than most folks. Be that as it may, the dedication, perseverance, and sacrifice it took me to get here is not up for debate. And if I can equip myself with the skills, knowledge and training it requires and persevere, make the sacrifices, then anyone can. 7 years ago I was just a high school graduate. Today, I own an operate 2 successful small businesses, hold 3 degrees and am about to grab my fourth. Nobody did that but me, and furthermore, nobody really even helped me with any of it, and to suggest that any person in America isn't capable of the same kind of change (maybe not the exact same thing) is laughable. The same people that cry about that are the ones that think the world owes them something. News flash, the world doesn't owe anybody anything, and very very few (if any) American's are successful simply by being lucky.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone is inferior to me. I said if they are, it is largely, if not entirely, due to choices they have or haven't made. There is not one single person in this country that isn't allowed to attend school. Even post-secondary institutions (barring the highly exclusive ones) don't turn people away. Everyone can get a student loan or FASFA (the latter if they qualify). Some people can join the military and pay for it that way. The ones that can't due to physical or mental issues, or age, can explore those other avenues. Every life is a product of the choices that person makes at the most fundamental level. I know lots of different people from all walks of life and the ones who are successful aren't successful because of where they were born or what they look like. They're successful because they put their nose to the grindstone and did what had to be done to better themselves and their lives, and they (like me) make no apologies for it.
That's like the phrase "Must be nice"
Hearing that pisses me right off. Yeah, it is nice. You know what wasn't nice? Laying in a human-feces-infested ditch in Iraq waiting for mortars to land on my head. Working 20 hours, sleeping for 2, pulling a 2 hour guard shift, then working another 20 hours. And not just any kind of work. The physical, backbreaking, laboring kind. 30+ mile walks in 80lbs of gear with 40lbs in a backpack in sweltering 120F temps. Watching your squad leader step on a buried IED in front of you and when the red mist and dust clears, only a crater and a helmet with some brain matter remain. Past the military (because to an extent, the military is a choice one makes. Once you're in though, you don't have a choice), working 100+ hour work weeks after I left the service for **** pay with no degree, simply because that's what was necessary. The struggles of working all that overtime while taking 21 credit hours per semester in undergrad coursework, so I could get my degree quicker and better myself for my family. None of that **** was nice. None of it was fun. So yeah, it's absolutely nice. 98% of America has no idea what "bad" really is, and 1% of the 2% that do, have only seen it by traveling abroad as tourists. When you're there living in the same mud huts with the kids, kicking a soccer ball that is flat and been patched so many times its unrecognizable, and giving those same kids bottled water because the source of their drinking water in their village is also the same canal that the sewage runs into, then will you know what "bad" really is. Sorry, the "woe is me" sob stories just don't hold weight with me. I am nobody special, just some random average guy, with average high school grades, graduated in the middle of my class, had a short (by some standards) and relatively average military career, and rather than get out and sit around on my ***, I decided I was going to make something of myself. The beauty of the American dream is that, if you can dream it, you can do it. My dad had a saying, and it's one I live by. "Can't, never did nothin'".
Also, if the government would take its damn hands out of the pockets of the middle class, the whole economic system could shift drastically. But alas, that's a pipe dream.
[/rant]
Annnnnywayyyys, so yeah, new cars, not used. I get most folks need a car. nobody needs a brand-new one.
Last edited by ArmyofOne; 09-24-21 at 09:04 PM.
09-24-21, 08:30 PM
#103
Dysfunctional Veteran
there's so much material on CL for this. these 2 threads alone...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...practices.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nd-buying.html
and this guy's videos (Kevin Hunter) on car buying and all the tricks of the dealers trade are excellent.
example:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bLre5s2Yf9o
link to his channel but looks like CL doesn't display it right so will leave off protocol
youtube.com/c/KevinHunter
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...practices.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...nd-buying.html
and this guy's videos (Kevin Hunter) on car buying and all the tricks of the dealers trade are excellent.
example:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bLre5s2Yf9o
link to his channel but looks like CL doesn't display it right so will leave off protocol
youtube.com/c/KevinHunter
09-24-21, 09:09 PM
#104
Lexus Fanatic
The simple fact is, if you take opinion out of it, and go solely based on fact, nobody needs a brand-new car. Not one person. A brand-new car is a want, but we do need people to buy them so there are used cars on that market. However, the 2 markets are not the same, at least not for the purposes of this topic.
Last edited by mmarshall; 09-24-21 at 09:32 PM.
09-24-21, 09:20 PM
#105
Lexus Fanatic
I'm not judging anyone. The simple fact is, if you take opinion out of it, and go solely based on fact, nobody needs a brand-new car. Not one person. A brand-new car is a want, but we do need people to buy them so there are used cars on that market. However, the 2 markets are not the same, at least not for the purposes of this topic.
As far as me being critical of others, I'll admit, my current financial situation is different than most folks. Be that as it may, the dedication, perseverance, and sacrifice it took me to get here is not up for debate. And if I can equip myself with the skills, knowledge and training it requires and persevere, make the sacrifices, then anyone can. 7 years ago I was just a high school graduate. Today, I own an operate 2 successful small businesses, hold 3 degrees and am about to grab my fourth. Nobody did that but me, and furthermore, nobody really even helped me with any of it, and to suggest that any person in America isn't capable of the same kind of change (maybe not the exact same thing) is laughable. The same people that cry about that are the ones that think the world owes them something. News flash, the world doesn't owe anybody anything, and very very few (if any) American's are successful simply by being lucky.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone is inferior to me. I said if they are, it is largely, if not entirely, due to choices they have or haven't made. There is not one single person in this country that isn't allowed to attend school. Even post-secondary institutions (barring the highly exclusive ones) don't turn people away. Everyone can get a student loan or FASFA (the latter if they qualify). Some people can join the military and pay for it that way. The ones that can't due to physical or mental issues, or age, can explore those other avenues. Every life is a product of the choices that person makes at the most fundamental level. I know lots of different people from all walks of life and the ones who are successful aren't successful because of where they were born or what they look like. They're successful because they put their nose to the grindstone and did what had to be done to better themselves and their lives, and they (like me) make no apologies for it.
That's like the phrase "Must be nice" Hearing that pisses me right off. Yeah, it is nice. You know what wasn't nice? Laying in a human-feces-infested ditch in Iraq waiting for mortars to land on my head. Working 20 hours, sleeping for 2, pulling a 2 hour guard shift, then working another 20 hours. And not just any kind of work. The physical, backbreaking, laboring kind. 30+ mile walks in 80lbs of gear with 40lbs in a backpack in sweltering 120F temps. Watching your squad leader step on a buried IED in front of you and when the red mist and dust clears, only a crater and a helmet with some brain matter remain. Past the military (because to an extent, the military is a choice one makes. Once you're in though, you don't have a choice), working 100+ hour work weeks after I left the service for **** pay with no degree, simply because that's what was necessary. The struggles of working all that overtime while taking 21 credit hours per semester in undergrad coursework, so I could get my degree quicker and better myself for my family. None of that **** was nice. None of it was fun.
So yeah, it's absolutely nice. 98% of America has no idea what "bad" really is, and 1% of the 2% that do, have only seen it by traveling abroad as tourists. When you're there living in the same mud huts with the kids, kicking a soccer ball that is flat and been patched so many times its unrecognizable, and giving those same kids bottled water because the source of their drinking water in their village is also the same canal that the sewage runs into, then will you know what "bad" really is. Sorry, the "woe is me" sob stories just don't hold weight with me. I am nobody special, just some random average guy, with average high school grades, graduated in the middle of my class, had a short (by some standards) and relatively average military career, and rather than get out and sit around on my ***, I decided I was going to make something of myself. The beauty of the American dream is that, if you can dream it, you can do it. My dad had a saying, and it's one I live by. "Can't, never did nothin'".
Also, if the government would take its damn hands out of the pockets of the middle class, the whole economic system could shift drastically. But alas, that's a pipe dream.
[/rant]
Annnnnywayyyys, so yeah, new cars, not used. I get most folks need a car. nobody needs a brand-new one.
As far as me being critical of others, I'll admit, my current financial situation is different than most folks. Be that as it may, the dedication, perseverance, and sacrifice it took me to get here is not up for debate. And if I can equip myself with the skills, knowledge and training it requires and persevere, make the sacrifices, then anyone can. 7 years ago I was just a high school graduate. Today, I own an operate 2 successful small businesses, hold 3 degrees and am about to grab my fourth. Nobody did that but me, and furthermore, nobody really even helped me with any of it, and to suggest that any person in America isn't capable of the same kind of change (maybe not the exact same thing) is laughable. The same people that cry about that are the ones that think the world owes them something. News flash, the world doesn't owe anybody anything, and very very few (if any) American's are successful simply by being lucky.
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone is inferior to me. I said if they are, it is largely, if not entirely, due to choices they have or haven't made. There is not one single person in this country that isn't allowed to attend school. Even post-secondary institutions (barring the highly exclusive ones) don't turn people away. Everyone can get a student loan or FASFA (the latter if they qualify). Some people can join the military and pay for it that way. The ones that can't due to physical or mental issues, or age, can explore those other avenues. Every life is a product of the choices that person makes at the most fundamental level. I know lots of different people from all walks of life and the ones who are successful aren't successful because of where they were born or what they look like. They're successful because they put their nose to the grindstone and did what had to be done to better themselves and their lives, and they (like me) make no apologies for it.
That's like the phrase "Must be nice"
Hearing that pisses me right off. Yeah, it is nice. You know what wasn't nice? Laying in a human-feces-infested ditch in Iraq waiting for mortars to land on my head. Working 20 hours, sleeping for 2, pulling a 2 hour guard shift, then working another 20 hours. And not just any kind of work. The physical, backbreaking, laboring kind. 30+ mile walks in 80lbs of gear with 40lbs in a backpack in sweltering 120F temps. Watching your squad leader step on a buried IED in front of you and when the red mist and dust clears, only a crater and a helmet with some brain matter remain. Past the military (because to an extent, the military is a choice one makes. Once you're in though, you don't have a choice), working 100+ hour work weeks after I left the service for **** pay with no degree, simply because that's what was necessary. The struggles of working all that overtime while taking 21 credit hours per semester in undergrad coursework, so I could get my degree quicker and better myself for my family. None of that **** was nice. None of it was fun.So yeah, it's absolutely nice. 98% of America has no idea what "bad" really is, and 1% of the 2% that do, have only seen it by traveling abroad as tourists. When you're there living in the same mud huts with the kids, kicking a soccer ball that is flat and been patched so many times its unrecognizable, and giving those same kids bottled water because the source of their drinking water in their village is also the same canal that the sewage runs into, then will you know what "bad" really is. Sorry, the "woe is me" sob stories just don't hold weight with me. I am nobody special, just some random average guy, with average high school grades, graduated in the middle of my class, had a short (by some standards) and relatively average military career, and rather than get out and sit around on my ***, I decided I was going to make something of myself. The beauty of the American dream is that, if you can dream it, you can do it. My dad had a saying, and it's one I live by. "Can't, never did nothin'".
Also, if the government would take its damn hands out of the pockets of the middle class, the whole economic system could shift drastically. But alas, that's a pipe dream.
[/rant]
Annnnnywayyyys, so yeah, new cars, not used. I get most folks need a car. nobody needs a brand-new one.