geko29

Even if we start from the premise of your observations being 100% statistically accurate, with no gaps or bias whatsoever, sales numbers still are what they are. No manufacturer is going to ignore overall sales volume and take rate, in order to customize their lineup for the unique tastes of the Knoxville metro.

SW17LS

Exactly, they don't see the value. Even I see the value less and less given how great the especially inline 6s have become.

Great example

Tell me about it... I love when experience and data are at the mercy of somebody's opinion.

Exactly...its absurd.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

the lack of v8 on the ls500 isn't its biggest issue. looks, interior room, less tech, etc...

AMIRZA786

To this point, I've driven the LS460, and the LS500's 3.5L TT is pretty awesome. I would have zero issues driving it as a daily or taking it on a long trip

geko29

Agreed. When I sat in one at the auto show several years ago (right around launch), doing so immediately excluded it from ever being considered due to the lack of space. I should not be more comfortable in a compact sedan (3-series, C-class, IS) than I am in a flagship.

TangoRed

This is precisely where we're having an issue. I don't think anyone is disputing that in your locale there may be more V8 X7s than in other locales of similar size. Even if your steady eye's appraisal is 100% correct, your metro area isn't big enough to matter at scale to a manufacturer which is why we focus on hard sales numbers. The sales data and need to scale (along with regulations of course) are what drive manufacturer decision making, not metro Knoxville TN.

SW17LS

Totally agree. If the car was like the LS always was and had that same 3.5TT engine I would have one.

AJT123

Here’s where all of you are dead wrong.

Please cite where I said because I see many V8 X7s around my area, that it meant that sales numbers are wrong? All I said was this is a V8 heavy SUV are which I’ve said on here since the year 1985.

You all assume I’m saying you’re lying when you post sales numbers?

However, I’m not imagining the X750s I see. Badges are right there in front of me. I don’t tell you all that you’re basically delusional…. I’d appreciate the same respect.

Back in the good old days the vast majority of E-Classes were 320s but two engine upgrades available. The take rates were low, probably not like now but still low. Not a problem then.

SW17LS

Its a different world now, margins are thinner than they were then and the industry was not heavily investing in the development of EV powertrains like they are now, you didn't have pressure from regulators like you do now and buyers didnt want better fuel economy as their primary criteria like they do now.

You certainly are implying that because you see lots of V8s around you that "people do still want V8s" and that carmakers are wrong for offering fewer V8s, the sales figures and survey responses show us its a very small number of people that purchase V8s when they are available. Everybody who has responded to you took what you were saying that way, you may want to evaluate your delivery...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

not sure what an X750 is, lol, but i certainly believe you when you say you see a load of V8 suv's there. but the point is, that's irrelevant to your point that car makers should therefore continue to make v8 suv's, because overal market stats clearly show the market has become tiny and compliance regs mandate they can't make/sell many of them anyway and so they do them with all the sprinkles on top to make as much money as possible from the few that demand them.

SW17LS

X7 50i, its the V8 version of the X7. Its 60i now.

TangoRed

To pull one example, see the quote of yours at the end of the message. I don't think I underestimated how many people care about stuff with cars at all because I've seen the sales data. As I said in my post, I'm not making any judgement on what you claim to see in your metro area, it's just that I find that to be irrelevant to the conversation if I have to be honest. You're right, in simpler times the E320 was the volume model but they had two engine upgrades. You kind of got to the point SW17LS and others have made - "engine upgrades" are seemingly all that's needed for the customer at large in today's highly regulated, scale-focused environment, not specifically a V8. We're down to one V8 engine for the E-class today, the soon to debut W214 E-class will have none. I'm sure some AMG customers will flee but it looks like MB is OK with that given the circumstances and other available product that didn't exist in the E320 days.

AJT123

Bingo you answered your own question, those aren't good things. If you like your cars regulated by CAFE that's your prerogative.

No, you're wrong...again. I said they sell 20-30k GXs a year all with thirsty V8s, the take and satisfaction rate with those are off the charts. I doubt many owners trade them in because they get bad gas mileage. All BOFs still get bad gas mileage, like I said Ecoboost still means 13-14 MPG (similar to V8s) when loaded down with gear and driven normally instead of EPA tests.

And for the record, "people DO still want V8s." Is or is not your S-Class powered by 8 cylinders that you paid more for? I never said it was the vast majority but at least we used to get options. We had that '11 IS350 that took a while to find because the one with the biggest engine was hard to find. I've found in traffic over the years that it's about 1 out of 10 of those IS models that are the 350. What was the problem with that then? I guess I'm beating a dead horse if you don't mind all these regulations and stuff.

GM just invested nearly a billion into V-8s, they're not going anywhere.

Also I never said car makers are wrong, obviously I understand the atmosphere we are living in today. I just don't like it. We couldn't go back if we tried, it would be impossible. I'm well aware of that.

SW17LS

It is what it is. There isn't anything we can do about it. CAFE standards are not the only reason for engine downsizing but it is a reason. Still though, where V8 and higher performance options exist buyers aren't buying them, they are content with small 4 cyl engines.

I'm an enthusiast, most people aren't. There are LOTS of people perfectly happy with their V6 S450s and I6 S500s. Options cost money for the manufacturer, and if people aren't going to exercise those options you have to understand when manufacturers cancel those options.

Overwhelmingly people say that fuel economy is their #1 concern when shopping for a vehicle, and overwhelmingly the higher CAFE standards are supported by voters when polled (voters of both political spectrums by the way), I have posted that data for you before but it doesn't seem to get through.

You and I are atypical buyers, well you don't buy new cars at all so you aren't a buyer, but I am an atypical buyer. I understand that carmakers make decisions based on what typical buyers want, not what I want.

Even I may not pay the premium for the V8 in my next car. I would rather have the V8, but there's a cost/benefit analysis.

For their trucks. They're not even putting that engine into the Corvette. GM has a use case though, since overwhelmingly their truck customers want those engines. Look at Ford though, they still get huge ADMs on Raptors even with the Ecoboost engine... If GM can invest that money anybody could, but for other carmakers the demand is not there to make the investment viable. Thats why Toyota/Lexus has abandoned V8s.

Sequoia at the dealer today, $17,500 markup, even without a V8.

AMIRZA786

What do you mean by "the biggest engine was hard to find"? IS350 has had the same engine since 2006 (2GR-FSE, 3.5L V6). The 2023 has pretty much the same engine (now 2GR-FKS), only changes are 2nd gen had the 6 speed while the latest has the 8 speed auto and now 311 hp instead of 306 hp. Do you mean that you were trying to find the IS350 over the IS250?