Rommelromm

He’s been saying that he knows it will be more aggressive looking. I’m really looking forward to it.

Carmaker1

I really appreciate that, thanks. I don't believe anything I mentioned before in this thread has changed thankfully, since Lexus completed the final design of the 2024 GX back in 2020. They've been showing it in private since February 2021, even though it will barely reach dealers this December. That's how far in advance, most of these automobiles are designed. We all work 3-6 years into the future. Lexus is currently developing the BEV 2029 GXe, which is currently earmarked for January 2029 SOP and will probably reach "pencils down" phase around 2025-26.

It's really great when we all share what we're hearing with each other. Toyota is not allowing spy shots of this vehicle, but if they do come, expect it over the next 6 weeks..

2chains

^^Looking forward to pics on this and the Land Cruiser Prado!

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

hopefully it won't be as horribly space compromised as the new sequoia.

the faithful will adore it whatever it's like. those looking to the EV future (including myself) will ignore it.

Toys4RJill

Hopefully the GX is not a hybrid...or a crappy 4 cylinder turbo. Only a V8 would be satisfactory.

GFerg

Lol, but you already know the answer.

Carmaker1

The Sequoia and GX have little to do with one another. That Lexus might only see space issues with the hybrid powered GX 550h, which will likely not be sold in the United States and maybe not ready until MY 2025 or 2026. Only GX 550 with V35A-FTS is coming to North America this December. The final design approval reaching back to 2020 isn't really shocking, considering that applies to all new Lexus models coming to market. Every Lexus redesign or new model through MY 2025 was designed as of December 2021, because Lexus works 3-5 years in advance and it explains a lot of slow updates. Japanese no longer have that edge like in years past, to move fast and develop a model very quickly. Even MY 2026 Lexus models are all already designed:


-

• 800B Toyota Internal Program - Q4 2018 Design Approval for 2022 NX; 08/2021 Job 1
• 720B Toyota Internal Program - 2017 Design Approval for 2022 LX; 11/2021 Job 1
• 910B Toyota Internal Program - Q4 2019 Design Approval for 2023 RX; 11/2022 Job 1 (Date of Publication was 12/14/2021)
• 220D Toyota Internal Program - 2020 Design Approval for 2024 TX, 07/2023 Job 1 (Date of Publication was 12/14/2021)
• 920B Toyota Internal Program - Q4 2020 Design Approval for 2024 Tacoma, 08/2023 Job 1 (Dated has changed since 2020) (Date of publication was 12/14/2021)
• 930D Toyota Internal Program - 2020 Design Approval for 2024 GX, 10/2023 Job 1
• 2021 Design Approval for 2025 ES, 09/2024 Job 1 (Date of Publication was 12/14/2021)

The unfortunate exception on this list, is the 2025 4Runner, which will be 4 years old from date of final exterior approval when it hits dealers. There are people I know who saw it up close for the first time 2 years ago, in prototype form for off the grid testing in March 2021. Yet, not even ready until September 2024.

As engineers we try to work around some of these internal hiccups, which for marketing and design spell a higher risk of product obsolescence upon market arrival. The 2022 LX 600, is the finest Toyota example of this issue, seeing as it was finalized in 2016-17. 300-Series development began in late 2013. Why did it take almost 8 years to develop and the predecessor had a 14 year run?

Toyota is having a hard time keeping to schedule on various models across both brands. I heard that the 2022 Tundra was "styled" from 2015 to early 2018 and arrived nearly 4 years after sketching and modelling was done. Not a good thing at all in that case, it should be closer to half of that time. The GX is one of Lexus' most ambitious products in the lineup and we are only weeks away.

Pretty much how it goes and it's standard fare in terms of gestation. They need 30ish to 36 months out to engineer around final dimensions.

Now, regarding the Land Cruiser, I must mention that both the US version and all new Prado, will not be available until April 1, 2024. I was told Easter 2024 and Japanese media are now saying April 2024 for JDM. This is what they claim the Prado looks like, while US version will be a bit different. I'm sorry to say, but don't expect a reveal until late this year. GX will be soon and the 2nd midsize vehicle on GA-F, following the 2024 Tacoma in late fall.




Exactly, we've all known this for almost 2 years.

Rommelromm

I was really hoping for a more aggressive Prado. All hopes are on the GX now!

Toys4RJill

That Prado looks boring

Motorola

Probably doesn't help that they're now expanding Crown into its own sub-brand too.

Carmaker1

I wouldn't worry, as they have some details right, but it's still probably off quite a bit. In the GX sub-forum, I shared some photo examples to alleviate concerns. The US model will have more retro design cues allegedly, not being offered as the vehicle in the image.

Bear in mind this is what they came up with for other models:

2018 Lexus LS XF50 (200B Program) Rendering in Spring 2016



2018 Lexus LS 500h


April 2020 Land Cruiser 300-Series (700B Program) Rendering


Production 2022 Toyota Land Cruiser VX-R VJA300 (2021)



August 2020 Land Cruiser 300-Series (700B Program) Magazine Rendering


FJA300 2022 Toyota Land Cruiser GXL



November 2019 Lexus LX 310-Series (720B Program) Rendering


2022 Lexus LX 600 Ultra Luxury (VJA310W)



2022 Lexus LX 600 F Sport (VJA310)


Yes Motorola, this reminds of the Bubble Economy's overexpansion into too many dealer networks in JDM. I had thought Akio Toyoda was trying to consolidate Toyota's offerings, but instead they are taking a different approach. Got rid of the Avalon and JDM Camry, in favor of expanding the Crown family. Hilux future might be really different than we expected, with TNGA-F in the mix.

I see what happened with the Land Cruiser. Toyota USA execs and spokespeople, for years said they didn't intend to kill off the nameplate ever, because it gave them a foothold in the United States and allowed them to abandon the Toyopet in favor of Corolla, Crown, Corona, Camry, and RAV4 as time passed. Akio Toyoda and other executive management, had to bite the bullet and accept that the business case for a Land Cruiser in North America, could not be managed with the Range Rover rival in Toyota showrooms.

As a product planner elsewhere, I can deduce from the knowledge I do have, that anywhere between 2017 when the final design for the 300-Series went into revisions---allegedly after a possible 1st approval in 2016, simply because Akio Toyoda said it looked too bland and wanted them make it look better---and 2019, that the internal decision was made to focus on just the 310-Series Lexus LX and suspend the Land Cruiser nameplate for USA. Toyota like most manufacturers, but even worse, doesn't care to care to discuss future plans when pressed for answers. They didn't want to "discontinue" the Land Cruiser nameplate, which they had promised to always keep alive. However with 200-Series production concluding to make way for 300 in March 2021, which wouldn't be offered in USA, the LC nameplate had to go if there wasn't going to be any supply for USA lasting into 2022-23. They had to bite the bullet and put on a different public face, while waiting for something else to take up that mantle...

Toyoda and a number of execs never wanted the Land Cruiser name to die in the USA with the 200-Series, so they had to devise another idea to keep it alive. At the time in the late 2010s, the next generation Prado wasn't due to arrive until late 2021-2022 and a USA version would not be ready until early in the 2023 calendar year. When I first heard of this vehicle in October 2019, my mind went to the next generation Prado, but I couldn't confirm much else at that point, only basic details shared to me by a former CL user (who takes issue with me over it). I saw in early 2020, that it would not be entering production for USA during 2022, unlike the-then scheduled 2023 4Runner and 2023 Prado redesigns, which were later delayed multiple times.

The next generation Land Cruiser Prado will form the basis of America's Land Cruiser (and GX 550), but they are saying that the two Toyota badged vehicles won't be identical. The American version will have more retro cues and be hardcore for offroading only, sell 25% of projected 4Runner volume. Can't be certain on more yet, especially worsened by its delay until April 2024, meaning an end of 2023 debut. Toyota is committed to keeping the Land Cruiser nameplate, but sadly had to make do with a hiatus until that product was ready. This reminds me of the dilemma with the SC 430 vs LC 500 in the 2010s, where a large gap ensued until that vehicle was ready. LC 500 began development roughly 2 months before SC 430 production ended in July 2010, but took 7 years to arrive in showrooms.

Carmaker1

One of the currently few Toyota inside sources I can still trust, mentioned from Plano, that the 2024 GX was unaffected by 2024 Land Cruiser delays from December 2023 to March/April 2024 release. It's supposed to remain December 2023 launch as a '24, but after seeing the international Prado get delayed too (I initially thought it was balancing differing models),

Lexus has missed this chart's listed dates for the 2024 LC, being that it hasn't even been revealed for USA and will be probably in a few weeks, so I'm concerned about GX trajectory now.

I had expected 2024 GX to debut in July at a standalone event, but from what I can see as of late, some media people are now saying June 2023. Not that it should mean anything, but we are now seeing spy shots of the 2025 Camry testing and that it is supposed to be launched (May-ish 2024) AFTER the GX 550 and Land Cruiser (Prado), as well as Lexus TX. I'm not sure what is going on, but I'd say Toyota is keeping those vehicles extremely close to vest, more than anything they've developed.

We've seen spy shots of the TX testing in Japan, from shoddily taken photos by their magazines. Nothing here around Greater Detroit I have seen testing, yet. There have been 2025 4Runner prototypes in the US since March 2021 to my recollection, but tested off the grid where there are no cameras for miles. Out of curiosity, I try to drive around Toyota's Technical Centers in Ann Arbor and Saline, but my timing is never good due to my own busy schedule.

I'm guessing that the TX 500h (alongside TX 350) will debut in a few weeks and then maybe GX later on in the summer? Or will the two be at the same June 1st event? Toyota is really keeping the next generation Prado and GX extremely close to vest, as we heard more about the Land Cruiser 300 and saw spy shots of the '23 Sequoia, way more than this project. Heck, even the Tacoma and Tundra.

I feel like they've been driving around prototypes of these two 2-3 major nameplates in AZ, TX, CO, CA, and MI, but maybe mistaken for another brand by clueless photographers. Who knows really? Should be really soon, considering that the 2023 RX wasn't really seen testing until early April 2022 in spy shots and then got announced for May 31, 2022 reveal on May 18th. We've seen the TX since December 2021 alongside the 2023 RX, 2024 Tacoma and Crown Sport, but not GX. I'd think marketing should be getting on that sooner than later.

redlineaus

I'm in Australia; this thread is very interesting reading, thanks for your insight @Carmaker1 ! It will be interesting to see if new GX is built in RHD (Best Car in Japan claims it will be sold there, so if it's accurate it would have to be) and how much differentiation there will be between US LC and the global Prado (and how many of those US retro cues would disappear for Prado). The current Prado is still a top seller in its class here so a 70 Series-style next-gen Prado would be a smash hit.

Do you know if there are plans to fit F33A-FTV or even the 1GD 4cyl to the new Prado/GX, or is that outside your sources as diesel wouldn't be offered in the US?

Carmaker1

Haha, didn't think much of anyone reading my commentary on here. Thanks, I just state things for the record, in order to put it out there. The F33A-FTV 3.3TD, is definitely not coming to the GX to my knowledge and not the 1GD 2.8D either. GX 550h powered by 2.4T i-Force Max (from Tacoma) will be offered, but I'm not sure about USA yet. Toyota is supposed to offer as many hybrids as possible, but the GX 550h trademark has yet to be filed in North America like other markets where Toyota applied for trademark.

FJA310 LX 500d has the engine 3.3TD like the FJA300 Land Cruiser, but as for Prado, I doubt it will. I don't have any Toyota contacts outside of North America anymore, except in Africa (deadend) and another person I PM with in the Gulf, who shares insight. My spouse (half-Australian) since we have a residence outside of Melbourne in Brighton, probably might have some friends at Toyota who'd know more than I do. I don't believe has the info on the Prado either via Australia unfortunately, so most of our insight will be US-focused unfortunately. I know very little about the next Hilux for that reason too, because I keep to myself mostly when in Melbourne (busy with work in Campbellfield) and don't interact with Australian automotive industry folks at all.

GX has intended for Japan for quite a long time, even with the current generation. It didn't pan out, because it was better to focus resources on the redesign instead. It will be offered in RHD for absolute certain, because like LX, Toyota wants to increase the offerings in Japan. I've seen the reports it's coming to Australia and I trust them. I'm honestly still trying to make sense of the Land Cruiser for USA, because a former user on here who was based in the Atlanta, GA automotive industry, clued me into the long term Land Cruiser plans back in October 2019 before anyone else even knew about it.

Toyota had opted back in the 2010s, to painfully suspend the nameplate in USA, since that the new vehicle would be based on the next Prado and not 300-Series entering production sooner than it would. Between the 4Runner, Prado, and GX, the decision was made to differentiate them by having the Lexus target the Defender 110 very closely, instead of the Discovery. Prado is a boxier evolution of 150, with modern touches borrowed from 300. US-spec is a minor deviation in being serious off-road with some additional retro cues I have yet to see. The 2025 4Runner is probably much more similar to the Tacoma this time, but that's just my guess, not a fact.

A Toyota USA employee unsolicitedly reaching out to me, talked a little about Prado. Then said that the new 4Runner is evolutionary and that much of what the U.S. media is claiming about it, is inaccurate. I also learned about the Prado being delayed from him, which ironically appeared in Japanese media some weeks later. He's gone silent on me, I guess after discovering what he shared got posted in forums. Don't blame him one bit, but I'm not exactly doxxing him either.

redlineaus

Thanks. I'm very keen to see the differences between them.And even if there's no diesel in GX, Toyota would be insane not to put at least the 1GD 2.8TD in Prado given the markets in which it's sold.

(Is there a way to get in touch with you privately about some info? I can't seem to be able to PM you.)