2024 Lexus GX 550
09-13-21, 01:58 PM
#16
Instructor
Thread Starter
I am not necessarily a luddite, as a tech geek and professional engineer/exec by education, but anything that takes away from driving experience for me, ticks me off. This new GX vastly interests me, having learned what it is now.
Nearly all of my vehicles are manuals, save for the unique stuff I cannot say no to. The LX, since I am often in and out of Africa very often, I am very well acquainted with and expect it to be no different next generation. I won't buy one, if I can use someone else's abroad. Up until now, I have never liked the GX by comparison and avoid it overseas, in favor of LX or 200 Series Land Cruiser.
GX has been milque toast to me and I favor the Prado vastly, ironically being the only (pseudo) Lexus product that I personally own and with a 6 speed manual transmission, since it was thankfully an option at the distributor who got it. Certainly not the 4.6 UR, but adequate enough in that environment and fun as hell.
In the states, I never have any seat time in an LX 570, save for rare visits to an uncle or aunt or two. This new GX is very likely to be on my radar, since I am miffed by the unibody Defender and how new G63 lost solid axles.
BTW. Sorry, I forgot to address your response above. Yes, I fully understand your reasoning behind your disappointment and why you got a D4 A8. My dad had a 2013 A8L W12 years ago, that my mother got him as a birthday surprise and after the lease ended in 2016, he gave it back and lamented that he didn't see the use in keeping it, as something didn't click for him. I cannot recall what his criticism was...
My dad being obsessed with British automobiles and only driving Jaguar XJs and Arnages, felt he hated the last generation XJ with a passion and said Audi was his next best choice.
He didn't like the Flying Spur at all and considered it a faux Bentley. Felt that the upper end Mulsanne was an overwrought behemoth, trying to outdo the Phantom in tackiness. All 3 British luxury sedans throughly disappointed him and he turned his back on both brands.
The few times I drove or rode in it, the D4 A8L W12 interior was artsy in its own way and not as cold as BMW or MB interiors can be. The new D5 is overkill and too cold for its own good. The W222 was a rare exception that I loved for its interior warmth.
Anyway, with his D4 A8, something just wasn't to his taste in the long run. He ended up moving onto V8 Range Rovers, particularly because of how flagship sedan like the current generation has been and the fact I was working for them in UK when he switched over.
Jaguar messed up a good thing and Audi should've adopted the RWD MSB architecture, instead of rejecting it when they were offered it in 2012. The D4 A8 was the last decent one, as the current car is somewhat underwhelming.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 09-13-21 at 02:15 PM.
09-13-21, 04:06 PM
#17
Lexus Champion
It will be interesting to see what's happening. Toyota keeps changing up how they name Lexus models and it's a cluster**** of proportions. The Tundra and Sequoia if revealed before LX 600, might tell the whole story, as has the NX 350 that debuted the turbo I4 replacement for 2GR-FKS and 1GR-FE 3.5L V6s
I am not necessarily a luddite, as a tech geek and professional engineer/exec by education, but anything that takes away from driving experience for me, ticks me off. This new GX vastly interests me, having learned what it is now.
Nearly all of my vehicles are manuals, save for the unique stuff I cannot say no to. The LX, since I am often in and out of Africa very often, I am very well acquainted with and expect it to be no different next generation. I won't buy one, if I can use someone else's abroad. Up until now, I have never liked the GX by comparison and avoid it overseas, in favor of LX or 200 Series Land Cruiser.
GX has been milque toast to me and I favor the Prado vastly, ironically being the only (pseudo) Lexus product that I personally own and with a 6 speed manual transmission, since it was thankfully an option at the distributor who got it. Certainly not the 4.6 UR, but adequate enough in that environment and fun as hell.
In the states, I never have any seat time in an LX 570, save for rare visits to an uncle or aunt or two. This new GX is very likely to be on my radar, since I am miffed by the unibody Defender and how new G63 lost solid axles.
BTW. Sorry, I forgot to address your response above. Yes, I fully understand your reasoning behind your disappointment and why you got a D4 A8. My dad had a 2013 A8L W12 years ago, that my mother got him as a birthday surprise and after the lease ended in 2016, he gave it back and lamented that he didn't see the use in keeping it, as something didn't click for him. I cannot recall what his criticism was...
My dad being obsessed with British automobiles and only driving Jaguar XJs and Arnages, felt he hated the last generation XJ with a passion and said Audi was his next best choice.
He didn't like the Flying Spur at all and considered it a faux Bentley. Felt that the upper end Mulsanne was an overwrought behemoth, trying to outdo the Phantom in tackiness. All 3 British luxury sedans throughly disappointed him and he turned his back on both brands.
The few times I drove or rode in it, the D4 A8L W12 interior was artsy in its own way and not as cold as BMW or MB interiors can be. The new D5 is overkill and too cold for its own good. The W222 was a rare exception that I loved for its interior warmth.
Anyway, with his D4 A8, something just wasn't to his taste in the long run. He ended up moving onto V8 Range Rovers, particularly because of how flagship sedan like the current generation has been and the fact I was working for them in UK when he switched over.
Jaguar messed up a good thing and Audi should've adopted the RWD MSB architecture, instead of rejecting it when they were offered it in 2012. The D4 A8 was the last decent one, as the current car is somewhat underwhelming.
I am not necessarily a luddite, as a tech geek and professional engineer/exec by education, but anything that takes away from driving experience for me, ticks me off. This new GX vastly interests me, having learned what it is now.
Nearly all of my vehicles are manuals, save for the unique stuff I cannot say no to. The LX, since I am often in and out of Africa very often, I am very well acquainted with and expect it to be no different next generation. I won't buy one, if I can use someone else's abroad. Up until now, I have never liked the GX by comparison and avoid it overseas, in favor of LX or 200 Series Land Cruiser.
GX has been milque toast to me and I favor the Prado vastly, ironically being the only (pseudo) Lexus product that I personally own and with a 6 speed manual transmission, since it was thankfully an option at the distributor who got it. Certainly not the 4.6 UR, but adequate enough in that environment and fun as hell.
In the states, I never have any seat time in an LX 570, save for rare visits to an uncle or aunt or two. This new GX is very likely to be on my radar, since I am miffed by the unibody Defender and how new G63 lost solid axles.
BTW. Sorry, I forgot to address your response above. Yes, I fully understand your reasoning behind your disappointment and why you got a D4 A8. My dad had a 2013 A8L W12 years ago, that my mother got him as a birthday surprise and after the lease ended in 2016, he gave it back and lamented that he didn't see the use in keeping it, as something didn't click for him. I cannot recall what his criticism was...
My dad being obsessed with British automobiles and only driving Jaguar XJs and Arnages, felt he hated the last generation XJ with a passion and said Audi was his next best choice.
He didn't like the Flying Spur at all and considered it a faux Bentley. Felt that the upper end Mulsanne was an overwrought behemoth, trying to outdo the Phantom in tackiness. All 3 British luxury sedans throughly disappointed him and he turned his back on both brands.
The few times I drove or rode in it, the D4 A8L W12 interior was artsy in its own way and not as cold as BMW or MB interiors can be. The new D5 is overkill and too cold for its own good. The W222 was a rare exception that I loved for its interior warmth.
Anyway, with his D4 A8, something just wasn't to his taste in the long run. He ended up moving onto V8 Range Rovers, particularly because of how flagship sedan like the current generation has been and the fact I was working for them in UK when he switched over.
Jaguar messed up a good thing and Audi should've adopted the RWD MSB architecture, instead of rejecting it when they were offered it in 2012. The D4 A8 was the last decent one, as the current car is somewhat underwhelming.
I liken the current Bentley to essentially Lexus quality, fit and finish with an Audi driveline/chassis at least for me when I drive them. I have worked on and driven all the Bentley products from 1970 up except the Mulsanne, I personally actually like it the best solely due to the fact it is the last car to bear the 6.75L engine and the unique feeling that engine provides. Very very fitting for a luxury car in my opinion, a very relaxed, heavy push that is never rushed/furious.
Current trucks and SUVs no matter the brand really are the "flagships" these days, I'm indifferent to this development for the most part however. I also like large, well appointed land barges and have a soft spot for the likes of the Hellcat SUVs/X7s
I mostly have dealt with Jaguar from the repair perspective, not a brand for me but I do love how they smell and some of the quirks they have. It doesn't for me, out weigh the drawbacks.
I came to Lexus out of simple anger at my former daily driver, I was tired of constant issues. As a side effect I fell in love with the quality and overall feel of the the flagship offerings and just how solid they are yet still fell special like a hand built car somehow. Again purely my feelings toward the cars, however I was disappointed in the extreme to learn Lexus=slow if not necessarily boring.
That is what lead me over to the D4, conservative, sleek, understated, easy to work on, good parts availability for modification, relatively speaking very very cheap for the performance level on offer. Oh and somewhat solidly built, I'm not really all that impressed but it's more than acceptable all things considered.
This advent of many TTV6s from Toyota is actually quite nice to see, similar to the uniformity of performance and modifications we see present in the 4.0 and even 3.0 Audi engines that range from S6-Panamera if Toyota continues to roll these out we may have the next 2-JZ engine on our hands. It gives me hope we will see a way to "easily" get 6-700 hp out of the LS500 engine etc......at the very least this would be a good improvement to the GX and how they are usually used/typical customer. You rarely see GXs over-landing after all.....
Last edited by Striker223; 09-13-21 at 04:10 PM.
09-15-21, 01:22 AM
#18
Instructor
Thread Starter
Toyota has filed for trademark in some other regions, GX 550h. However, I do not see this trademark elsewhere where GX 550 has been filed. Are they interchangeably the same vehicle? One has to wait and see if they file that trademark here, because if not, GX 550 might be a mild hybrid turbocharged 6 cylinder, with lesser output than LX 600.
Very interesting and highly insightful perspective Striker, D4 is a great car. Both D3 and D4 were the highs for the A8. I wager you have a lot more hands on experience than I do in that respect. In terms of the Mulsanne criticisms, I was speaking from my father's point of view as a buyer vs the Arnage, since I am not there yet as my 7-Series, is the max for me in this segment (and pretty much a lot of us here, outside of LFA owners).
I feel like the Bentley vehicles became a bit too clinical after the Azure and lost the old world charm, even if the Mulsanne tried to remain true to its mission statement and move the T1 to Turbo R to Arnage flagship lineage forward into the future. The Vickers era underpinnings and facsimiles of it were just too dated, but practically defined the second half of the 20th century ultraluxury motoring for Rolls-Royce and Bentley pre-split.
Audi at least has always been an understated, yet fashion forward statement of luxury throughout the years. In my father's case, his obsession with wood everywhere, I guess is the order of the day for him and getting older, wanted a higher step in height. The best thing Audi can say is, they convinced an Arnage driver to switch over to the D4. He didn't hate it, but when a lease ends, things just happen I guess. I thought it was great.
I personally can do without wood trim, yet also welcome it, when tastefully executed. 80% of the time, I commute in my newer Raptor or other Ford 4x4s of mine, but I do lament the dwindling numbers of ICE sedans and it's the reason I side eye a lot of people, who don't need higher riding vehicles. I try to use all my vehicles, as they're intended.
As for Lexus, a lot of middle aged housewives and fathers with young families, tend to often get GXs or empty nesters, who want something big, but don't want to pony up the money for an LX 570. That right there is probably gonna change a bit, if not **** off some of them. Lexus will definitely gain a new audience, if not motivate upper income 4Runner buyers to get into the GX unlike ever before and make up the lost ground.
A 44 year old family friend of mine, who is a UK-born (ex-military) pharmacist living in Southwest USA (now works for her husband), had her 2007 GX 470 for 13 years, before trading it in for a 2021 GX 460 last December. It's not that she couldn't afford to replace it sooner (her husband as an internist physician grosses $160k per month!), but she felt it did the job right and needed no changing until necessary. Another GX 460 owner I know, is my mother's sister in Africa. As well as many others. All, somewhat beige-loving types who wouldn't be caught dead I imagine in something that looks like a luxed up Jeep Wrangler.
Toyota is really going for the young at heart and youth contingent with this vehicle. It's smart, very very smart. Demographic is really going to change like night and day. They've now got me and I am certain this will be one Lexus, I might sign up for indeed. I
f GX 550 is a 48 volt mild hybrid, without the "h" suffix, we might be talking 400hp indeed. So give the Land Cruiser 300 the beefed TTV6, give GX 550 is a hybrid boosted lower tune, and LX 600 a fully tuned, mild hybrid version?
Wow, we have very similar thoughts on the matter. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was also very disappointed with how Bentley went after the Azure, the newer cars honestly feel like a more solid A8 in a good way but they lost a lot of soul.
I liken the current Bentley to essentially Lexus quality, fit and finish with an Audi driveline/chassis at least for me when I drive them. I have worked on and driven all the Bentley products from 1970 up except the Mulsanne, I personally actually like it the best solely due to the fact it is the last car to bear the 6.75L engine and the unique feeling that engine provides. Very very fitting for a luxury car in my opinion, a very relaxed, heavy push that is never rushed/furious.
Current trucks and SUVs no matter the brand really are the "flagships" these days, I'm indifferent to this development for the most part however. I also like large, well appointed land barges and have a soft spot for the likes of the Hellcat SUVs/X7s
I mostly have dealt with Jaguar from the repair perspective, not a brand for me but I do love how they smell and some of the quirks they have. It doesn't for me, out weigh the drawbacks.
I came to Lexus out of simple anger at my former daily driver, I was tired of constant issues. As a side effect I fell in love with the quality and overall feel of the the flagship offerings and just how solid they are yet still fell special like a hand built car somehow. Again purely my feelings toward the cars, however I was disappointed in the extreme to learn Lexus=slow if not necessarily boring.
That is what lead me over to the D4, conservative, sleek, understated, easy to work on, good parts availability for modification, relatively speaking very very cheap for the performance level on offer. Oh and somewhat solidly built, I'm not really all that impressed but it's more than acceptable all things considered.
This advent of many TTV6s from Toyota is actually quite nice to see, similar to the uniformity of performance and modifications we see present in the 4.0 and even 3.0 Audi engines that range from S6-Panamera if Toyota continues to roll these out we may have the next 2-JZ engine on our hands. It gives me hope we will see a way to "easily" get 6-700 hp out of the LS500 engine etc......at the very least this would be a good improvement to the GX and how they are usually used/typical customer. You rarely see GXs over-landing after all.....
I liken the current Bentley to essentially Lexus quality, fit and finish with an Audi driveline/chassis at least for me when I drive them. I have worked on and driven all the Bentley products from 1970 up except the Mulsanne, I personally actually like it the best solely due to the fact it is the last car to bear the 6.75L engine and the unique feeling that engine provides. Very very fitting for a luxury car in my opinion, a very relaxed, heavy push that is never rushed/furious.
Current trucks and SUVs no matter the brand really are the "flagships" these days, I'm indifferent to this development for the most part however. I also like large, well appointed land barges and have a soft spot for the likes of the Hellcat SUVs/X7s
I mostly have dealt with Jaguar from the repair perspective, not a brand for me but I do love how they smell and some of the quirks they have. It doesn't for me, out weigh the drawbacks.
I came to Lexus out of simple anger at my former daily driver, I was tired of constant issues. As a side effect I fell in love with the quality and overall feel of the the flagship offerings and just how solid they are yet still fell special like a hand built car somehow. Again purely my feelings toward the cars, however I was disappointed in the extreme to learn Lexus=slow if not necessarily boring.
That is what lead me over to the D4, conservative, sleek, understated, easy to work on, good parts availability for modification, relatively speaking very very cheap for the performance level on offer. Oh and somewhat solidly built, I'm not really all that impressed but it's more than acceptable all things considered.
This advent of many TTV6s from Toyota is actually quite nice to see, similar to the uniformity of performance and modifications we see present in the 4.0 and even 3.0 Audi engines that range from S6-Panamera if Toyota continues to roll these out we may have the next 2-JZ engine on our hands. It gives me hope we will see a way to "easily" get 6-700 hp out of the LS500 engine etc......at the very least this would be a good improvement to the GX and how they are usually used/typical customer. You rarely see GXs over-landing after all.....
I feel like the Bentley vehicles became a bit too clinical after the Azure and lost the old world charm, even if the Mulsanne tried to remain true to its mission statement and move the T1 to Turbo R to Arnage flagship lineage forward into the future. The Vickers era underpinnings and facsimiles of it were just too dated, but practically defined the second half of the 20th century ultraluxury motoring for Rolls-Royce and Bentley pre-split.
Audi at least has always been an understated, yet fashion forward statement of luxury throughout the years. In my father's case, his obsession with wood everywhere, I guess is the order of the day for him and getting older, wanted a higher step in height. The best thing Audi can say is, they convinced an Arnage driver to switch over to the D4. He didn't hate it, but when a lease ends, things just happen I guess. I thought it was great.
I personally can do without wood trim, yet also welcome it, when tastefully executed. 80% of the time, I commute in my newer Raptor or other Ford 4x4s of mine, but I do lament the dwindling numbers of ICE sedans and it's the reason I side eye a lot of people, who don't need higher riding vehicles. I try to use all my vehicles, as they're intended.
As for Lexus, a lot of middle aged housewives and fathers with young families, tend to often get GXs or empty nesters, who want something big, but don't want to pony up the money for an LX 570. That right there is probably gonna change a bit, if not **** off some of them. Lexus will definitely gain a new audience, if not motivate upper income 4Runner buyers to get into the GX unlike ever before and make up the lost ground.
A 44 year old family friend of mine, who is a UK-born (ex-military) pharmacist living in Southwest USA (now works for her husband), had her 2007 GX 470 for 13 years, before trading it in for a 2021 GX 460 last December. It's not that she couldn't afford to replace it sooner (her husband as an internist physician grosses $160k per month!), but she felt it did the job right and needed no changing until necessary. Another GX 460 owner I know, is my mother's sister in Africa. As well as many others. All, somewhat beige-loving types who wouldn't be caught dead I imagine in something that looks like a luxed up Jeep Wrangler.
Toyota is really going for the young at heart and youth contingent with this vehicle. It's smart, very very smart. Demographic is really going to change like night and day. They've now got me and I am certain this will be one Lexus, I might sign up for indeed. I
f GX 550 is a 48 volt mild hybrid, without the "h" suffix, we might be talking 400hp indeed. So give the Land Cruiser 300 the beefed TTV6, give GX 550 is a hybrid boosted lower tune, and LX 600 a fully tuned, mild hybrid version?
09-17-21, 11:56 AM
#20
Instructor
Thread Starter
09-17-21, 07:52 PM
#21
Lexus Champion
Toyota has filed for trademark in some other regions, GX 550h. However, I do not see this trademark elsewhere where GX 550 has been filed. Are they interchangeably the same vehicle? One has to wait and see if they file that trademark here, because if not, GX 550 might be a mild hybrid turbocharged 6 cylinder, with lesser output than LX 600.
Very interesting and highly insightful perspective Striker, D4 is a great car. Both D3 and D4 were the highs for the A8. I wager you have a lot more hands on experience than I do in that respect. In terms of the Mulsanne criticisms, I was speaking from my father's point of view as a buyer vs the Arnage, since I am not there yet as my 7-Series, is the max for me in this segment (and pretty much a lot of us here, outside of LFA owners).
I feel like the Bentley vehicles became a bit too clinical after the Azure and lost the old world charm, even if the Mulsanne tried to remain true to its mission statement and move the T1 to Turbo R to Arnage flagship lineage forward into the future. The Vickers era underpinnings and facsimiles of it were just too dated, but practically defined the second half of the 20th century ultraluxury motoring for Rolls-Royce and Bentley pre-split.
Audi at least has always been an understated, yet fashion forward statement of luxury throughout the years. In my father's case, his obsession with wood everywhere, I guess is the order of the day for him and getting older, wanted a higher step in height. The best thing Audi can say is, they convinced an Arnage driver to switch over to the D4. He didn't hate it, but when a lease ends, things just happen I guess. I thought it was great.
I personally can do without wood trim, yet also welcome it, when tastefully executed. 80% of the time, I commute in my newer Raptor or other Ford 4x4s of mine, but I do lament the dwindling numbers of ICE sedans and it's the reason I side eye a lot of people, who don't need higher riding vehicles. I try to use all my vehicles, as they're intended.
As for Lexus, a lot of middle aged housewives and fathers with young families, tend to often get GXs or empty nesters, who want something big, but don't want to pony up the money for an LX 570. That right there is probably gonna change a bit, if not **** off some of them. Lexus will definitely gain a new audience, if not motivate upper income 4Runner buyers to get into the GX unlike ever before and make up the lost ground.
A 44 year old family friend of mine, who is a UK-born (ex-military) pharmacist living in Southwest USA (now works for her husband), had her 2007 GX 470 for 13 years, before trading it in for a 2021 GX 460 last December. It's not that she couldn't afford to replace it sooner (her husband as an internist physician grosses $160k per month!), but she felt it did the job right and needed no changing until necessary. Another GX 460 owner I know, is my mother's sister in Africa. As well as many others. All, somewhat beige-loving types who wouldn't be caught dead I imagine in something that looks like a luxed up Jeep Wrangler.
Toyota is really going for the young at heart and youth contingent with this vehicle. It's smart, very very smart. Demographic is really going to change like night and day. They've now got me and I am certain this will be one Lexus, I might sign up for indeed. I
f GX 550 is a 48 volt mild hybrid, without the "h" suffix, we might be talking 400hp indeed. So give the Land Cruiser 300 the beefed TTV6, give GX 550 is a hybrid boosted lower tune, and LX 600 a fully tuned, mild hybrid version?
Very interesting and highly insightful perspective Striker, D4 is a great car. Both D3 and D4 were the highs for the A8. I wager you have a lot more hands on experience than I do in that respect. In terms of the Mulsanne criticisms, I was speaking from my father's point of view as a buyer vs the Arnage, since I am not there yet as my 7-Series, is the max for me in this segment (and pretty much a lot of us here, outside of LFA owners).
I feel like the Bentley vehicles became a bit too clinical after the Azure and lost the old world charm, even if the Mulsanne tried to remain true to its mission statement and move the T1 to Turbo R to Arnage flagship lineage forward into the future. The Vickers era underpinnings and facsimiles of it were just too dated, but practically defined the second half of the 20th century ultraluxury motoring for Rolls-Royce and Bentley pre-split.
Audi at least has always been an understated, yet fashion forward statement of luxury throughout the years. In my father's case, his obsession with wood everywhere, I guess is the order of the day for him and getting older, wanted a higher step in height. The best thing Audi can say is, they convinced an Arnage driver to switch over to the D4. He didn't hate it, but when a lease ends, things just happen I guess. I thought it was great.
I personally can do without wood trim, yet also welcome it, when tastefully executed. 80% of the time, I commute in my newer Raptor or other Ford 4x4s of mine, but I do lament the dwindling numbers of ICE sedans and it's the reason I side eye a lot of people, who don't need higher riding vehicles. I try to use all my vehicles, as they're intended.
As for Lexus, a lot of middle aged housewives and fathers with young families, tend to often get GXs or empty nesters, who want something big, but don't want to pony up the money for an LX 570. That right there is probably gonna change a bit, if not **** off some of them. Lexus will definitely gain a new audience, if not motivate upper income 4Runner buyers to get into the GX unlike ever before and make up the lost ground.
A 44 year old family friend of mine, who is a UK-born (ex-military) pharmacist living in Southwest USA (now works for her husband), had her 2007 GX 470 for 13 years, before trading it in for a 2021 GX 460 last December. It's not that she couldn't afford to replace it sooner (her husband as an internist physician grosses $160k per month!), but she felt it did the job right and needed no changing until necessary. Another GX 460 owner I know, is my mother's sister in Africa. As well as many others. All, somewhat beige-loving types who wouldn't be caught dead I imagine in something that looks like a luxed up Jeep Wrangler.
Toyota is really going for the young at heart and youth contingent with this vehicle. It's smart, very very smart. Demographic is really going to change like night and day. They've now got me and I am certain this will be one Lexus, I might sign up for indeed. I
f GX 550 is a 48 volt mild hybrid, without the "h" suffix, we might be talking 400hp indeed. So give the Land Cruiser 300 the beefed TTV6, give GX 550 is a hybrid boosted lower tune, and LX 600 a fully tuned, mild hybrid version?
I concur with everything you said, the GX is indeed the premier car of the demographic you mentioned lol!
My family and myself included mostly do subscribe to the theory of "if it does the job keep using it", however we also will buy vehicles purely for the sake of experiencing them or having one to fill a particular role. Similar to how you mention you try to use a vehicle as it's capabilities suggest.
The only point I would differ with you on is that of wood trim, I love it. The fact it requires an actual person to manually select, cut, attach to backer, and polish to a perfect finish is something I find old world romanticism in. In contrast I see nothing special whatsoever in metal speaker grills, carbon fiber dash inserts etcetera......they are nothing but mass produced, totally bland, uniform stamping/weavings with no individuality or personal, human connection. In my mind wood is so much rarer just from a material perspective, I have a set of speakers made of now illegal, African zebra wood that have a superb character that a equally high end aluminum speaker just doesn't have in my opinion.
Perhaps that view is just a result of my parents views of quality and the like, but it is something that I feel quite strongly. Not just in cars but also as stated in other things I own/use, unique natural materials are special to behold. A set of ultra modern forged aluminum grips on a NHC president looks nice, but for me a set of mammoth or giraffe bone grips on a VIP is more along the lines of something to be proud of and wear to formal events.
Easiest solution however is to just own both and taylor exposure to audiences who are receptive to the appropriate styles. To each his own
09-17-21, 07:54 PM
#22
Lexus Champion
09-18-21, 07:08 PM
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well I'm glad my rambling contained some useful insights for once lol! Thanks for that, I have a quite "abnormal" perspective considering my age, I'm much younger than most people would guess.
I concur with everything you said, the GX is indeed the premier car of the demographic you mentioned lol!
My family and myself included mostly do subscribe to the theory of "if it does the job keep using it", however we also will buy vehicles purely for the sake of experiencing them or having one to fill a particular role. Similar to how you mention you try to use a vehicle as it's capabilities suggest.
The only point I would differ with you on is that of wood trim, I love it. The fact it requires an actual person to manually select, cut, attach to backer, and polish to a perfect finish is something I find old world romanticism in. In contrast I see nothing special whatsoever in metal speaker grills, carbon fiber dash inserts etcetera......they are nothing but mass produced, totally bland, uniform stamping/weavings with no individuality or personal, human connection. In my mind wood is so much rarer just from a material perspective, I have a set of speakers made of now illegal, African zebra wood that have a superb character that a equally high end aluminum speaker just doesn't have in my opinion.
Perhaps that view is just a result of my parents views of quality and the like, but it is something that I feel quite strongly. Not just in cars but also as stated in other things I own/use, unique natural materials are special to behold. A set of ultra modern forged aluminum grips on a NHC president looks nice, but for me a set of mammoth or giraffe bone grips on a VIP is more along the lines of something to be proud of and wear to formal events.
Easiest solution however is to just own both and taylor exposure to audiences who are receptive to the appropriate styles. To each his own
I concur with everything you said, the GX is indeed the premier car of the demographic you mentioned lol!
My family and myself included mostly do subscribe to the theory of "if it does the job keep using it", however we also will buy vehicles purely for the sake of experiencing them or having one to fill a particular role. Similar to how you mention you try to use a vehicle as it's capabilities suggest.
The only point I would differ with you on is that of wood trim, I love it. The fact it requires an actual person to manually select, cut, attach to backer, and polish to a perfect finish is something I find old world romanticism in. In contrast I see nothing special whatsoever in metal speaker grills, carbon fiber dash inserts etcetera......they are nothing but mass produced, totally bland, uniform stamping/weavings with no individuality or personal, human connection. In my mind wood is so much rarer just from a material perspective, I have a set of speakers made of now illegal, African zebra wood that have a superb character that a equally high end aluminum speaker just doesn't have in my opinion.
Perhaps that view is just a result of my parents views of quality and the like, but it is something that I feel quite strongly. Not just in cars but also as stated in other things I own/use, unique natural materials are special to behold. A set of ultra modern forged aluminum grips on a NHC president looks nice, but for me a set of mammoth or giraffe bone grips on a VIP is more along the lines of something to be proud of and wear to formal events.
Easiest solution however is to just own both and taylor exposure to audiences who are receptive to the appropriate styles. To each his own
As for wood trim, I think my context was missed LOL. I LOVE wood trim, but I don't necessarily need it. Some of my secondhand BMW cars have wood and some do not. My 7-Series of course has wood, but it has never been as mesmerizing as the wood trim I had gotten used to in my dad's Jaguar XJs of yore and his 2005 Arnage.
The biggest issue I had with JLR as a novice engineer in Coventry, was their unwillingness to incorporate tasteful wood treatments to the X260 XF (launched 2015) and XE (X760) compact. I never knew how much I took quality wood trim and leather inside a vehicle for granted, until I got more used to German and Japanese luxury.
Lexus at least tried to get it right, but once I became more acquainted with 4x4s and high performance cars on my own dime, which offered barely any wood trim on the interior and more so faux/real carbon fiber or aluminum trim, I forgot with time how good it felt to have nice steering wheel wood trim under your hand.
What I have in my M760i above is decent, but nowhere near as impressive and warm feeling as the interiors in the D4 and W222 S-Class.
I am all about wood trim in an luxury automobile, but outside of that in a car like my F82 M4 or GT350, I am okay without it. Anything below the A6/E/GS/5er classes, I don't really consider to be luxury and wood isn't much of a concern. Jaguar on the other hand, became a massive disappointment with efforts like this, which I was unfortunately apart of on the engineering side of things. Compare that to past efforts, where Jaguar was just as nice as contemporary Bentleys.
1995 Jaguar XJ12 V12 SWB
1995 Jaguar XJ12 V12 SWB
2001 Jaguar XJR (X308)
1995 Jaguar XJR (X306)
2002 Bentley Arnage R
The X360 XJ program I also worked on from 2014 to 2016, was a great mix between past, current, and future Jaguar design. It was canned in favor of the BEV-flavoured X391 and then canceled again recently, because it was underwhelming per revisions to the new CEO. I never saw the revised car in X391, but it wasn't very inspiring per traditional Jaguar design. Just another Callum special, which the public never really warmed up to.
Personally, I will always regret never being able to get a W222 S600 (non-Maybach), before the mid-cycle facelift 4 years ago for 2018. MB dropped the configuration I wanted and because I wasn't quite ready, in waiting to see what the 2018 LS 500 would be, I wasn't committed until stock depleted nationally. It's out of the question now, as I can never see myself buying a V12 secondhand, unlike say a V8. I'm not sure what should even replace it, being that I don't want an EV and still desire a big luxury sedan. I dislike the new S580.
09-18-21, 07:13 PM
#24
Instructor
Thread Starter
09-18-21, 08:35 PM
#25
Lexus Fanatic
You yourself probably get more information, sooner, than most of us here at Cat Chat....and I join Bitkahuna, Striker, and others in appreciation for what you DO find out and post.
09-18-21, 09:49 PM
#26
Lead Lap
Carmaker,
I have the same wood trim in my X7 I just received this summer and it’s just ok I guess. I almost got the matte black wood but I have that on my M340 and felt the gloss black wood looked better with the more luxurious interior of the X7 with the glass controls. What I really wanted in both of my cars was real carbon fiber trim. It didn’t make any sense that you could get it in the X5M50i but not the X7M50i.
I have the same wood trim in my X7 I just received this summer and it’s just ok I guess. I almost got the matte black wood but I have that on my M340 and felt the gloss black wood looked better with the more luxurious interior of the X7 with the glass controls. What I really wanted in both of my cars was real carbon fiber trim. It didn’t make any sense that you could get it in the X5M50i but not the X7M50i.
09-18-21, 10:34 PM
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
Yes, I've never liked the way the auto industry works either, with the Hush-Hush modes, body-tape/bras, camouflage, spy-photographers trying to cheat the camoflauge, endless guessing, Internet/YouTube previews/images and computer-voices, that are often more wrong than correct, etc.... It used to be that new vehicles got unveiled at auto shows.....now, like with Teslas and the F-150 Lightning, they seem to be more at privately-held stage-events. I don't like to use four-letter words, but in general, I agree with you....it s**ks.
You yourself probably get more information, sooner, than most of us here at Cat Chat....and I join Bitkahuna, Striker, and others in appreciation for what you DO find out and post.
You yourself probably get more information, sooner, than most of us here at Cat Chat....and I join Bitkahuna, Striker, and others in appreciation for what you DO find out and post.
For Toyota, they are threatened by us Detroit folks and the Chinese competition, who can churn out a copy in 1/3 of the time as Toyota. Let's say, 6 year development effort from 2017 to 2023, final design is completed & known to corporate since January 2020 and withheld from public sight until 2023. OOPS, gets leaked in September 2021. Lexus issues cease and desist, but it's too late.
Chinese OEM responds today and designs a copycat in 3 months by December 2021, completes their design freeze in 10 weeks by February 2022, and sets launch for January 2023. See how that works? It's a risk not worth taking for Toyota.
Toyota requires 6-9 months to study+plan a new project, then 18 to 24 months of design work and prelim. engineering, another 6 months of final design engineering and then another 2-3 years to test, certify, and deliver that final design to dealers.
To my better knowledge, via my fiance, Bronco planning got its early start in 2015, program work began in 2016, and styling efforts started in late 2016 and we achieved styling approval in July 2018. A few months later, we achieved design freeze (as the final article) before the end of 2018 and began prototype development.
In March 2019, brought styling mockups of real deal and showed it to U.S. Ford dealers. Bronco Sport was similarly debuted in Las Vegas in October 2018, ahead of its December 2020 launch to dealers and got leaked in November 2018 online.
March 2019 attendees were threatened this time and watched like hawks to prevent a repeat. (Lexus did this to attendees back in February with the GX and other upcoming models)
By the middle of 2019, the first serial test units of the new body shape were completed, but Jim Hackett absolutely refused to allow them on daylight field test rounds and made sure we did our damndest to hide them from prying eyes. Didn't want copycats coming sooner, in shorter turnaround time than Bronco launch in 2021.
Waited until mid-January 2020, to allow spy shots of the real thing, because reveal was originally set to be in March 2020, 10 months ahead of January 2021 planned on-sale date, but COVID-19 messed up everything and so did O.J.
Leaks were actually much worse back in the day, especially with Detroit Big 3 products LOL. Some cars you saw, 3 YEARS before intro, but since internet wasn't really there, wasn't a big deal in terms of the public exposure, but competitors having advanced info against you.
As you remember, you had to rely on print publications or TV programs, to see what was coming down the road. Back in the 50s/early 60s, when you and my father were young kids, the dealers revealed cars locally and only a rare few went to auto shows. This stayed a staple until about the 1990s, when TV like Motor Week's Future Report with Lisa Barrow, made that a challenge and cutthroat magazines putting out vulnerable spy shots.
Outside of Ford, I don't really get significant firsthand knowledge about upcoming products, so yes I do have to wait. There are actually people you do interact with elsewhere regarding Lexus, who have seen the new GX and of course barred by NDA from discussing it publicly. Maybe you can ask them by PM and beat me to the punch. I won't ask them myself though, as that bridge is already burned for me and I am fine with that.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 09-19-21 at 03:25 PM.
09-18-21, 10:45 PM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
Carmaker,
I have the same wood trim in my X7 I just received this summer and it’s just ok I guess. I almost got the matte black wood but I have that on my M340 and felt the gloss black wood looked better with the more luxurious interior of the X7 with the glass controls. What I really wanted in both of my cars was real carbon fiber trim. It didn’t make any sense that you could get it in the X5M50i but not the X7M50i.
I have the same wood trim in my X7 I just received this summer and it’s just ok I guess. I almost got the matte black wood but I have that on my M340 and felt the gloss black wood looked better with the more luxurious interior of the X7 with the glass controls. What I really wanted in both of my cars was real carbon fiber trim. It didn’t make any sense that you could get it in the X5M50i but not the X7M50i.
Hell, I wanted an M7, but this was the next best thing I could get LOL. Alpina B7 was too much for me, so it was a hard pass and I hated the 2020 model, so it was rushed and I didn't get to special order it, like I usually do for new vehicles.
I am really not liking the LCI/facelift 2023 X7 nor the new G70 7-Series fascias. If people thought that Bangle was bad circa 2004, they're in for a very rude awakening next year.
Last edited by Carmaker1; 09-19-21 at 02:55 PM.
09-19-21, 07:22 AM
#29
Lexus Fanatic
As you remember, you had to rely print publications or TV programs, to see what was coming down the road.
....
Back in the 50s/early 60s, when you and my father were young kids, the dealers revealed cars locally and only a rare few went to auto shows.
This stayed a staple until about the 1990s, when TV like Motor Week's Future Report with Lisa Barrow, made that a challenge and cutthroat magazines putting out vulnerable spy shots.
Outside of Ford, I don't really get firsthand knowledge about upcoming products, so yes I do have to wait.
I won't ask them myself though, as that bridge is already burned for me and I am fine with that.
09-19-21, 07:33 AM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
