ok so i re-read some of your posts...

post #5 you wrote:

post #14 you wrote:

so... same platform, similar engine, but nothing like a shortened sequoia. what am i missing?

at this point i have no idea (and it isn't that important to me) what this new gx will be, but shortened sequoia seemed reasonable.

 

Yes this is confusing, it seems to put the Land Cruiser and the Sequoia in the similar price brackets. They'll end up with 3 similar products with the GX 550, Toyota Land Cruiser and Sequoia.

Also, the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, hasn't been sold in the US market in the past as far as I know.

 

As I mentioned before a number of times, the GX is targeted towards the G-Class in terms of image (if MB still offered a 6 cylinder G-Class) and directly against the Land Rover Defender 110.
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I think the problem is context being an issue and while being a shorter Sequoia might seem like the case mechanically, TNGA-F is extremely scalable and the midsize application will be different than the versions used for larger vehicles.

They're not the same platform, because TNGA-F is not approached that way. Even if an ignorant journalist can make it seem that way and mislead many owners of Toyota and Lexus TNGA vehicles.

I try not to call it a platform, because it's not as simple as that anymore.

I do feel like I'm getting ahead of myself in an effort to get the information out there, because I encounter so many contradictions which makes my head spin and try to filter it into more competent information.

I don't see how making a boxier facsimile of today's Prado married to old school styling makes it automatically a Bronco competitor.

From what I understand this vehicle is slightly larger than the current 4Runner, but smaller than LX and Sequoia. That doesn't literally mean it's a smaller Sequoia, because that's an outdated approach towards vehicle architectures. They look absolutely nothing like each other.

Modularity allows one architecture to be used for different vehicles uniquely, with high levels of differentiation.
Our dually F-450 uses the same modular T3 architecture as the Expedition, Navigator, and regular cab F-150. They do not use the same frame though.

Some of the text I did say about the 2024 GX back in 2021, was misleading insight from a Toyota affiliate who kept referring to mild hybrids and Mazda's I6. As most of you here know, Lexus will tack on h to anything hybridized. No ifs and buts, so looking back I'm not too pleased with the fact that they inaccurately told me GX 550 was a mild hybrid. It's not. The TRD Pro Tundra is and so is the Sequoia.


Not to mention, the Sequoia I disclosed for February 2022 release, got delayed several times to October 2022 from teething issues at TMMTX, but it was revealed in January 2022.

At the moment only Toyota brand has the hybridized twin turbo V6, which is being developed for the Land Cruiser 300 and LX, leaning towards 2025 introduction.

Just also to inform everyone, my inside person on the 2025 4Runner mentioned months ago that Toyota already is developing the next generation, better yet 4th generation GX in parallel for 2029 production start. It's in whiteboard phases, the earliest stage of discussion since sometime last year.

This incoming redesign is the last generation ICE GX. Next generation BEV version will arrive during the 2029 calendar year either for 2029 or 2030 MY.

For now, we will get GX 550 powered by V35A-FTS and then GX 550h, which will have roughly 350 hp and 470-480 lb-ft of torque.
I cannot speak for the LX future.

Most importantly, my complaints regarding what I care about, is how when someone reads any posts in this thread and relies on it as a source. Often posting it elsewhere as new information. I must ensure there are no contradictions or misunderstood context.

Ideally the Curated Content Editor would deal better with this kind of stuff being dispensed on the regular, but unfortunately the nature of the information is risky for this website to be putting on display for corporate Lexus to DMCA or cease & desist. It's a catch-22.
I can already see what I posted here is being reposted on other forums and in comment sections as a reference guide to these redesigns, so I'm very particular about no one taking the wrong information and getting confused from mixed messaging.

Lexus doesn't want advance information out there, but I also imagine they don't want bad information turning off their potential buyers.

That happened when I reported on the Bronco 3-4 years ago and I had to fight off a lot of contradictory information being passed around. I've been there, done that too many times.

The Lexus audience is much smarter of course, but some stuff always gets lost in translation and I'm trying to avoid it happening again.

I pointed out a few pages ago that I expected this vehicle to be released in December 2023, powered by the same twin turbo V6 in the LS 500 tuned differently. I don't believe I've deviated from that.

I also described the targeted market vividly and we both laughed about it.



​​​ This is the 2024 TX going on sale in September, while GX is even more niche than it and much more powerful.​​​ Militaristic is what they describe it as. We'll see...


Jwong, you somewhat get me on this confusion with Land Cruiser vs GX, plus vs 4Runner. I'd forget about Sequoia.
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Each time I try to psych myself out of it and say I'm hearing just unconfirmed speculation, more and more proof comes to the surface.

Someone has just told me how much power the halo trim level, hybrid TRD Pro Tacoma will have: Just under 330 hp and under 470 lb-ft. Sounds like the Land Cruiser hybrid engine to me.

The funny thing is when I first heard this Land Cruiser information in October of 2019 from a CL user: MPLexus via PM, I couldn't verify it for a few months independently.

​​​​​ So I kept it private and didn't share it with anyone else, I only gave hints. My first theory was a midsize Land Cruiser based on the next generation Prado, because of the fact that I knew that this vehicle wasn't launching before 2023 (this year).

Since Land Cruiser 300 was arriving in 2021, I figured Toyota would cancel the name plate indeed, after the 200-Series concluded, and put the Land Cruiser nameplate on hiatus until the other vehicle was ready.

Everything at Toyota USA on my internal list of major releases through December 2022, was spoken for and no mention of new Camry, Tacoma, Avalon, nor Land Cruiser. This was late 2019-early 2020 of course.

What I am annoyed about is, off of this website and most Toyota/Lexus spaces, there are a few talkative Toyota people who have seen this new Land Cruiser and keep likening it to a Bronco competitor. G Wagen is also mentioned, oddly enough Defender too.

I have a problem with such rumors based on physical evidence, because I consider the sources to be unreliable in some respects in terms of their ability to reliably describe from memory anything they have been shown secretly.

People who are good at memorizing such things, tend not to talk much and are in roles with strict NDAs. Those are the people who PM me and delete their online profiles.

A few of us remember in 2014 when the 7-year old LX 570 was rumored to be redesigned for 2016. I figured out pretty quickly that "redesign" wasn't going to happen and it was a heavy facelift instead like the 2013 LS, but as usual the Lexus people shown the 2016 vehicle were ignorantly hyping it as "next generation" and all new.

When it finally leaked in mid-2015, I was proven right. It was a facelift I suspected due to the weird timing of it.

Same song and dance for the 4th generation LX in 2019. It was going to be an over the top Bentley Bentayga meets G Wagon with ultra luxury and never like before since 1996.

The messenger in 2019 wasn't at fault, but the main sources who actually saw the actual vehicle themselves and provided us ignorant information.

As as we can see today, the extremely delayed LX600 is highly reflective of the previous generation model and not some never before seen interpretation of the nameplate. It's not even all that well received either and underwhelming in some ways.

People can be shown something, but if they're not intelligent enough to accurately recall and describe their sightings from memory, forget about relying on them as a reliable source.

I don't see a Bronco competitor only being a hardtop with no removable roof or doors.

In fact, sounds like a 4Runner to me, yet Toyota indeed will also offer a new 4Runner in September 2024, 9 months later. This Land Cruiser is still coming ahead of that this December. So is the GX550. Really really odd, but hey look at the RAV4/Venza/NX.

Simply different versions of the same compact application of midsize FWD TNGA-K. RAV4 is supposed to be a bit more butch, while Venza serves a different market who wants softer middle of the road styling, and NX is the premium badge, with the two married together.

Sounds like the same thinking to me once again. Flooding a segment with different flavors of the same wrapper, because Toyota got $$$ to spread. At Ford we do it with Bronco Sport/Escape/Lincoln Corsair.

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For the other theory out there, I don't see how Toyota can go from today's Prado to a hardcore vehicle with a removable roof and maybe doors too like Bronco and Wrangler.

From what I am seeing here is Toyota thinks that they can pull a fast one and offer almost the same vehicle under different badges, above the 4Runner. Land Cruiser is $50-70k. GX will be $65kish to $90k, then of course larger LX above that at $90k into 6 figures.

Lexus intends to match the pricing of the Defender 110 Inline 6, but undercut it fully loaded by some $20-25k.

4Runner will start at $40k and might top out at $55-60k.

Toyota has always been targeting the GX towards the Discovery/LR3/LR4 since 2002. They're now turning their sights to the Defender 110. I'm tired of trying to make sense of the next generation Prado lol, As I'm getting a headache.

This just reminds me of JDM Toyota Store nonsense of yore, with too many models all over the place which are nearly the same thing. It's why they couldn't sell a Lexus without calling it Celsior and Vista/Windom/Soarer/Aristo/Cygnus.

To my knowledge the 4Runner was delayed (AGAIN) from March 2024 release as a new 2024 1/2 model to September 2024 as a 2025 model, to give the new 2024 Land Cruiser room to be released alongside 2024 GX the year before 4Runner and allow the 2024 Tacoma to be launched at least half a year before the new 4Runner.

As early as 2017-18 USA product plans, Toyota wanted to introduce a new 4Runner in December 2021 as a 2022 model. It became a late 2022 release for 2023 model year in 2019 Toyota Motor North America internal launch plan revisions.

Then a midyear 2024 model in March 2024 because of powertrain revisions. Now it's 2025, 18 months from now. Nearly 36 months of delays, on a vehicle released in November 2009 and based on a model released in October of 2002 (2003 4Runner)

A lot of things have fallen behind like a domino effect since 2017 for almost every Toyota model.

A lot of what I see secretly is Toyota struggling to meet internal deadlines just like other automakers. The difference is they hide these foibles to protect their image and people like me help unearth these secrets.

I remember seeing how the Sienna redesign was skipped years ago for 2018 and rescheduled to early 2020 as a 2021. It ended up being delayed 10 more months to November 2020. There were serious teething issues.

LX 600 was just as bad, being delayed 2 years into February 2022. NX launch was delayed as well by a year, to facilitate major upgrades for infotainment, T24A, and PHEV. LX is more outdated than NX, as it was too locked down to revise. LS is an afterthought.

The latest Crown wasn't in the cards for USA back in February 2020. During the pandemic, someone (likely Akio) requested to federalize the crossover body style. To offer it in North America, canceling the facelift Avalon for 2022 ('22 ES got refreshed), suspending development of the 2025 Avalon, and killing it off after 2022 in favor of 2023 Crown.

Most importantly, the 2024 GX gets huge applause every time it's shown behind closed doors!

It's a major turning point for Lexus SUVs from what I hear. Lexus is going to be reapplying some form of sub branding for offroading purposes, similar to F-Sport.

They say that the Land Cruiser will be offered in two trim levels. I can't remember what exactly, because of inconsistent information. Base (like TRD), then hardcore version (Pro or better). GX will have two powerplants, one TTV6 turbo maxing around 350-400 hp and the other I4 2.4 turbo hybrid putting out over 330 hp, over 470 lb-ft.


​​​​ Some of the TNGA-F vehicles will offer a naturally aspirated 2.5 hybrid, putting out likely over 250 hp and 200 lb-ft. Not final estimates, that's just a guess. Might even be better than the Highlander.

 

How do you guys feel about the new head light design? Is it just me or they do look weird? I saw a new RX the other day. That DRL light above the light is just weird IMO.

 

trying to follow some of that huge post, about broncos, tx, 4runners, tacomas, land cruisers, etc. lol, but about the gx in particular... so it will be a g-class competitor with an LS500 engine and launch around december?

 

Oh I can't wait for the new GX. And I'm curious if they'll be just as popular, I don't see why not.

 

if carmaker's right and it's supposed to compete with a g-wagon and if it's less than 100k it won't. if it's over 100k it won't sell in very big numbers.

 

I haven't read any of that but saying that I don't see why they would stray from the midlevel GX formula, it won't be priced near LX. They sell like hotcakes.

 

I don't think he meant it was going to directly compete with the g-wagen from a pricing sense, but more that it's rugged boxy looks will tempt would-be G-wagen buyers much in the same way as the Land Rover Defender.

 

I think you have to look at WHY the GX sells well. It sells because its the 3 row midsized, mid price luxury SUV from Lexus. Those buyers are going buy (in Lexus' mind) the TX. That leaves the enthusiast buyer who buys the GX because of its off road chops and BOF design, which is a very small group...and thats what this new GX would appeal to. I think thats a good approach in that Lexus desperately needs something, anything that is made for enthusiasts...

There is a growing market for big, square offroad type vehicles. Look at the LR Defender. Did anybody ever think they would make a 3 row Defender?! We wondered why they would make ANY Defender a few years ago. Look at the Bronco. Wrangler continues to push upmarket...

 

I’m just excited to see the new product. I’m sure it will be bad ***.

 

Same. First Lexus product I've been excited about in a long time.

 

I still hate the V8 is gone but it is what it is and wtf do I care anyway, I own 3 vehicles with excellent V8s.

But oh yeah I fully expect GX550 to be a beast and I really have no idea what's cooking, excited to see it.

I'm one in the minority I actually really like the LX600, shortcomings and all. But I don't think the 300 is better than 200 overall, no.

"GX550" has a really nice ring to it.

 

i highly doubt any g-wagen shoppers will buy a gx. and the defender is entirely different... don't get me wrong, i REALLY like it... i dig the rubberized interior, the overal style, etc.

good post. lexus still has the IS500, RX500, RC-F, LC, all of which definitely appeal to enthusiasts, but yeah, they can do more.

ah, the yuuge 130 is news to me (just looked it up).

 

IS500, RCF and LC still appeal to enthusiasts, but hardly the RX500.