Striker223

Yep, I totally forgot about Samsung since I'm so used to associating them with high end Vram and storage media for phones and PCs. I have them mentally in a whole different camp than car chips

mmarshall

Come on, guys....get real. I don't hate the man. I don't hate anybody. Yes, I think he is stubborn, eccentric, quirky, often acts in a strange manner, and I'm not sure I would want to work for him. But if he is as smart as you guys seem to think he is, and can come up with ways to help send civilians in private industry to the moon, then maybe he can come up with a more foolproof way to produce computer chips. After all, he heads a company that actually uses a fair number of them.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

chips are not lego bricks, they are etched pieces of silicon made at microscopic scale and tolerances and a typical fab plant takes billions and 5-10 years to build and get running. so any 'brilliance' or 'system' elon musk may think of isn't happening any time soon.

no idea what you mean by 'more foolproof way to produce computer chips' unless you just mean a way to produce them that doesn't rely on other companies, if so, see above, ain't happening any time soon.

i use a fair number of electronic devices but that doesn't mean i can make them.

LeX2K

Elon Musk is autistic I suspect those are the mannerisms and behaviour you don't particularly like.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

who says car companies are asking for the same "old" chips every year? one thing to keep in mind is production cycle. stuff like phones the production cycle is relatively quick and short, still i can tell you that the iphone 13 that is coming out in weeks, it was designed probably 2 years ago, all parts confirmed and sourced last year, and went through a year (or more) of testing and qualification.

when it comes to automotive industry, due to safety concern, qualification cycle is far longer than phones. from the time they design the system and confirm on choices of chips, it will be at least 4-5 years to go through all the qualifications before those systems are actually used in production vehicles that run on the streets. there is no workaround, they can't risk changing something and rush to the market without going through the whole qualification process again. if anything happens out there, it's crap load of problems for them.

so yes, all the cars you see out there, the systems in there were designed 5 years ago. that goes for mb, bmw, toyota, etc... tesla is no exception either.


you clearly have absolutely no idea about IC chips manufacturing, i suggest you read up on this instead of throwing out random claims. this has nothing to do with whether must is brilliant or not. he is super smart but some stuff simply takes time. tsmc is the world's biggest and most advanced chip manufacturing company and they are at full capacity. they are building new fab in arizona and still it will take time to build the damn place let alone get it into production. what can elon possibly do? collect infinity stones and snap his fingers?

Hameed

This was great, thanks Rominl. 👍

mmarshall

Well, I never said it didn't. And, again, I'm not the one trying to prove either his intelligence or non-intelligence level...that comes from other posters.



........and you do?

mmarshall

Its actually a (related) condition called Asperger Syndrome.

LeX2K

I'm aware. I had a very long running bet with a friend (10 years!) and Elon on SNL confirmed it.

EZZ

What he says is absolutely true and I've worked in the silicon industry for over 15 years so yeah, I absolutely do. IC manufacturing is the most complex manufacturing process ever created and the newest fabs cost about $40B to make. Elon is a genius in many respects such as business and rockets and EVs but that doesn't make him capable of semi manufacturing as that isn't even in his field. To even suggest he can magically circumvent the integrated circuit sounds pretty naive.

LeX2K

FABs have insane levels of tech, they are getting close to atom scale lithography. What blows my mind is a die can be made having billions of transistors with essentially zero defects. The industry went the opposite of what many predicted, wasn't long ago it was thought Intel's fabrication superiority could never be surpassed and having your own FABs was the only way to stay on top. AMD eventually surpassed Intel using TSMC, bet you didn't see that one coming 10 years ago.

Will we see a companies start to vertically integrate via their own chip plants? Never say never but not even Apple with their near unlimited resources is doing it. BTW TSMC has a market cap 3x of Intel.

It is very concerning from a national security standpoint that so much silicon comes out of China.

mmarshall

Agreed....but there are reasons for the disparity. Part of it is the much lower level of regulations there, which doesn't affect their economy as much as it does here. And, part, of course, is simply the amount of silicon available as a natural resource....you can't mine or produce what is not there.

EZZ

TSMC is not Chinese. China does want to conquer them though

EZZ

What? Silicon is the 2nd most abundant element on the Earth's crust surpassed only by Oxygen. its also ridiculously easy to mine. Its not the bottleneck in any shape or form in the chips shortage. lol

LeX2K

I know, but I don't think it will stay that way for long unfortunately.

I can remember long enough to when TSMC actually sucked they were way behind even AMD's fab. "Real men have fabs" remember that? Or maybe not that was a very long time ago. Back on topic I don't see how Tesla could justify owning their own fab, maybe in 10 years when they are the biggest company on earth.