Toyota Crown (crossover) for USA
#91
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
not sure what you're referring to... the not-a-hatch sedan thing for the u.s. is hideous, the traditional crown sedan seems pretty great to me.
I suggest this topic be closed or at least be renamed to Crown Cross, because there is a LOT to unwrap here. Toyota basically spun off an entirely new sub-brand under the Crown name (the same way Genesis did) and unveiled 4 brand new cars. They aren't variants of each other, each one is its own vehicle. Hence why you have two different crossovers, a sedan made from the RWD Mirai, and this weird Outback thing that we've been talking about so far in this thread.
This is actually pretty concerning news for Lexus, because out of the blue Toyota just unveiled a new luxury sub-brand that may very well cannibalize Lexus, if not at least taking away attention from Lexus product development in favor of growing the Crown brand. Maybe they want it to be their Buick, while Lexus is their Cadillac, but we all know how that worked out for GM...
i didn't read where the whole crown sub-brand might be sold... anywhere other than japan? could be a 'proving ground' for new models which might become toyota or lexus models, just like this new Crown 'thing' will be the toyota crown in the u.s.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 07-16-22 at 08:06 PM.
#92
I don’t agree with you in any way. Toyota has always had premium products and pricing in the middle of the segment price points. This new American destined crown will be a little more money than a Venza/Avalon but less money than a NX. (Which went up in price). People who want a Toyota badge will have that option and if they want a Lexus they will have that option as well, but they have to pay a little more. No different than 4R/GX or Land Cruiser/LX or Highlander/RX or Avalon/ES.
Toyota has always walked the fine line with Lexus and differentiating the two brands, this just seems like an unnecessary complication, especially with a new ES on the horizon that will get this same powertrain after the Crown.
Side note: I think we should move the last few posts to a new thread about the Crown sub-brand since we're no longer talking about just the crossover.
Last edited by Motorola; 07-16-22 at 09:56 AM.
#93
I'm getting very tired of the hatchback look of "sedans". Stop the slooping back and bring back a "trunk". Errr... Gas mileage, yea, yea. Sporty...not. Hatchback-y...yes. I don't want a hatchback, I want a sedan. Oh well.... My two cents.
#94
Looks are subjective, and it's all been said. Inside, I give them credit for doing what they didn't do outside: keep it simple and not try too hard. It seems like a well-appointed and tasteful space.
Objectively, the top model should deliver very good powertrain performance with a decent AWD system the Avalon and ES painfully lacked. The disappointing minuses, to me, are the pointless decision to do this form factor without hatchback practicality, and the stupidly high center of gravity that will needlessly worsen what might have been a very appealing ride/handling compromise.
If this is the bones of the next ES, which seems like a serious possibility, one wonders if this is the form factor they'll use for that too. If this was the ES on offer when I bought mine last year, I'd have gone German. I'm one of those people who still likes actual sedans.
Objectively, the top model should deliver very good powertrain performance with a decent AWD system the Avalon and ES painfully lacked. The disappointing minuses, to me, are the pointless decision to do this form factor without hatchback practicality, and the stupidly high center of gravity that will needlessly worsen what might have been a very appealing ride/handling compromise.
If this is the bones of the next ES, which seems like a serious possibility, one wonders if this is the form factor they'll use for that too. If this was the ES on offer when I bought mine last year, I'd have gone German. I'm one of those people who still likes actual sedans.
#95
Yah I'm worried. This new Avalon replacement, even Toyota goes "Car or SUV?" in its press release. Is this what customers want? Tall big fat cars that look like SUVs? I hope the luxury market doesn't follow. I like the sleek looks of the 7ES. It's high-riding but also looks like it hugs the road down low especially from behind. not a fan of the jacked look.
Apparently from early hands-on reviews it is IMPRESSIVELY quiet. Toyota is bragging about new noise suppression technology, fully laminated glass, etc.
Apparently from early hands-on reviews it is IMPRESSIVELY quiet. Toyota is bragging about new noise suppression technology, fully laminated glass, etc.
Meanwhile nearly 6” lower than an SUV coupe Honda CrossTour.
Modest 4” allows hybrid battery pack/fuel tank sandwich to fit neatly below rear seat base.
With 4” battery packs under the floor pan, expect +4” sedans to become the norm for EV’s..
+4” is far better than driving a genuine SUV like Highlander that is nearly 8” taller than forthcoming Toyota Crown hi riding sedan.
Last edited by peteharvey; 07-16-22 at 04:30 PM.
#96
#97
Looks are subjective, and it's all been said. Inside, I give them credit for doing what they didn't do outside: keep it simple and not try too hard. It seems like a well-appointed and tasteful space.
Objectively, the top model should deliver very good powertrain performance with a decent AWD system the Avalon and ES painfully lacked. The disappointing minuses, to me, are the pointless decision to do this form factor without hatchback practicality, and the stupidly high center of gravity that will needlessly worsen what might have been a very appealing ride/handling compromise.
If this is the bones of the next ES, which seems like a serious possibility, one wonders if this is the form factor they'll use for that too. If this was the ES on offer when I bought mine last year, I'd have gone German. I'm one of those people who still likes actual sedans.
Objectively, the top model should deliver very good powertrain performance with a decent AWD system the Avalon and ES painfully lacked. The disappointing minuses, to me, are the pointless decision to do this form factor without hatchback practicality, and the stupidly high center of gravity that will needlessly worsen what might have been a very appealing ride/handling compromise.
If this is the bones of the next ES, which seems like a serious possibility, one wonders if this is the form factor they'll use for that too. If this was the ES on offer when I bought mine last year, I'd have gone German. I'm one of those people who still likes actual sedans.
Even a Honda CrossTour SUV coupe is more than 6” taller.
Crown not really an SUV - but a high riding sedan.
Last edited by peteharvey; 07-16-22 at 04:21 PM.
#98
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
#99
Instructor
The new 2023 Toyota Crown is ugly. It doesn’t even resemble a sedan. It’s clearly a crossover. I’m so glad that I bought a brand new 2022 Toyota Avalon Limited and a 2022 ES350 Ultra Luxury. The Avalon and the ES350 are very beautiful looking cars. I don’t care for the 2023 Crown. I will only buy the Crown if Toyota refreshes the Crown in the next few years and makes it look like a sedan and if they make it look better or if they make the Camry into a full size sedan. Also, I hope that Lexus doesn’t make the new 8th generation ES look like the Crown.
Last edited by glamglam; 07-16-22 at 09:51 PM.
#101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOBnbcECzEY
Here is a new 408 for comparison against the Crown design wise.
Here is a new 408 for comparison against the Crown design wise.
Both seem to have a raised rear quarter waistline for a deeper trunk.
#102
•a sedan with more wind noise
•a sedan whose MPG suffers from more aerodynamic drag
•a sedan more susceptible to crosswinds
•a sedan whose suspension engineers are forced to make a more compromised choice between ride comfort, "head toss" over bumps, and body roll
•a sedan with lower ultimate handling limits
All of these are functional compromises. And the existence of the Camry on the same basic platform, with plenty of room for 4 people and their stuff, proves it wasn't functionally necessary to make them. You've got a car here that's viewed as a costlier step up from a Camry XLE, yet it's configured to perform worse in every functional way except AWD.This car was basically the result of marketing, not engineering, decisions.
#103
Intermediate
I like all three of the Crown Variants, other than the one (Crossover) they've announced is coming here.
The Sport (Red) and Estate (Yellow) versions look particularly good to my eyes.
The Sedan (Silver), might be OK in person, but doesn't do anything for me from the pictures I've seen so far.
The Sport (Red) and Estate (Yellow) versions look particularly good to my eyes.
The Sedan (Silver), might be OK in person, but doesn't do anything for me from the pictures I've seen so far.
#104
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
All of these are functional compromises. And the existence of the Camry on the same basic platform, with plenty of room for 4 people and their stuff, proves it wasn't functionally necessary to make them. You've got a car here that's viewed as a costlier step up from a Camry XLE, yet it's configured to perform worse in every functional way except AWD.This car was basically the result of marketing, not engineering, decisions.
a camry doesn't have plenty of room for 4 people and their stuff if they're going away for more than a couple of nights.
people taking trips want to bring tons of stuff these days besides just clothes/toiletries, including computers, game consoles, sporting gear, food, drinks, and on and on. a sedan's trunk typically just isn't big enough for 4 people.
taller sedans as well as cuv's/suv's offer a better viewing vantage point and most people feel safer driving them vs sedans.
you can't deny the u.s. has shifted DRAMATICALLY in recent years to cuv's/suv's, mostly for the reasons above.
making a taller sedan, even if there's downsides vs. a traditional sedan, is going where the market is, and making accordingly more profit. seems like a smart decision. even if this is the ugliest crown ever made.
#105
Lexus Test Driver
Maybe it's thanks to pet friendly hotels and stores being more open to let people bring in a dog.
We travel with 2 small dogs, pretty much need a crossover at a minimum for the dog cage and extra stuff.