Motorola

$5K is around 10% the cost of the entire vehicle, its not "close" at all to $65K. Anyway, my point is that Infiniti isn't ready to charge the same prices as an equivalent Genesis model. They will remain Nissan+ as they call themselves into the foreseeable future.

Ironically, the Nissan Arya goes up to $65K IIRC. So now Infiniti is even less premium in some ways than its mainstream counterpart.

JDR76

OMG I am sorry I commented. Good grief.

SW17LS

$5k is not a ton of money when one is already looking at a $60,000 car. People shrug off $5k ADMs all the time.

SW17LS

Please, comment more!

Motorola

I disagree, $5K is a pretty big deal, otherwise we wouldn't see so many automakers throw fits when they lost that $7K tax credit for EV's, many of which are $60K or more for the top trim of a mainstram model. $5K+ ADM's only recently became the norm. But this is super off topic at this point.

SW17LS

What EVs have you seen that when the tax credit has been lost, their sales cratered? None I can think of.

Motorola

Thats beside the point because we're currently in a supply chain shortage, and EV's especially are impacted with limited supply.

The current conditions are not the norm for how the car market functions. Automakers clearly feel it important to have the $7K credit, as indicated by the OEM outcry against the tax credit removal and subsequent scramble to build factories in the US to get their vehicles qualified for the credit again.

Also, to tie back to the ES thread, $5-7K is the difference between a GS and ES. So yes, $5K absolutely matters.

SW17LS

We'll agree to disagree...

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

value is not 'price' so your comparison doesn't make sense. value is what you GET for the price.

acura/infiniti are just lower end products so they can't possibly justify genesis prices.

and this g90, while getting 'close' to an s-class in what you get, gets blown away by higher s-class configs, 8 cylinders, amg, maybach, etc.

the g90 is REALLY impressive for what it offers at its price. and actually the s-class is the same. the s-class i would argue is still a good value, if that's what one is looking for. saw that interesting video a while back comparing an s-class with a bentley. the bentley cost a lot more but in many ways, the interior was much more luxirious (wood and leather in particular). the s-class is more 'austere' (some would say cold), certainly compared to the bentley.

now a bentley might be considered 'good value' against a rolls-royce, but again, a rolls-royce is in a different league and again, i would argue it's good value for what you get - stunning customization, materials, etc.

for sure, some cars AREN'T worth what they cost.

'never' and 'always' can become sometimes, and not always.

you can't because they're not the same thing.

however, if the eqs is not desirable by some such as yourself, then maybe if they make an electric g90, that will combine the more traditional luxury with the desirable electric platform, like the electric g80, and be a winner, something mercedes doesn't offer. i have to assume the g90 was designed to be an ev as well.

back to lexus, they caught mercedes with their pants down with the ls400, because the quality, refinement, and materials were excellent, AND the price was extremely aggressive. took mercedes a decade or two, but they climbed out of the hole.

Striker223

Totally agree on value. Many cars are not worth buying.

SW17LS

Very few people would pay the same price for a Lexus that is comparable to a BMW or Mercedes. Value is always been part of Lexus’ selling proposition.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

here we go again value is part of every selling proposition. for some they value the BRAND greatly. but i think you're referring only to what, physically, you get for your money as value. again i say you get what you pay for. same old discussion. an ls500 costs less than an s-class because an ls500 isn't in the same league as an s-class. they're just different. so lexus' 'value' is simply lower prices for less car. doesn't make them bad or worse, just different value proposition.

SW17LS

Luxury car buyers all care about brand to a certain degree. Brand cache is a big part of why people buy luxury things.

There have been times when the LS has been very comparable to an S Class and a lower price remained a huge reason why the LS was successful.

Motorola

Value pricing is a legitimate practice. To me, Acura and Infiniti are a value brands because they are luxury brands that have a lower cost of entry across their entire lineups. Relative to other vehicles in their respective segments, they are cheaper to get into and option up, even if they are missing the top end of options as their competition. The same goes for the current ES and RX.

But if we're really going into semantics, value is subjective. What's worth more to one person won't be worth anything to another. Steve touched on it in the ES thread about how he values a Genesis G80's RWD platform over the ES, even if the G80 is missing luxury amenities from a similarly priced ES. Meanwhile others value the ES because of its interior volume even though it has a more pedestrian platform. Some people will argue that Genesis offers no value over any of the competition because you don't get the badge or dealer experience of an established luxury brand no matter how much you pay.

Whether anyone considers them a value or not, Infiniti and Acura have positioned themselves a wrung below Genesis as a luxury brand, barring vehicle like the MDX Type S.

Margate330

Ditto

I like that, totally agree.