Lower vehicle prices may (?) require life-style changes from consumers.
12-12-21, 09:02 PM
#31
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Car prices will continue to climb as long as there are buyers. But as i laid out before, the pricing models are becoming more sophisticated and demand driven. Don't like it? Oh well, stick with you've got, buy used, or just buy less of a model which is mmarshall's thread title point.
12-13-21, 07:33 AM
#33
Lexus Test Driver
Car prices will continue to go up based on these factors from what i can see:
- Labor, raw material costs etc
- EV transition costs (infrastructure, tooling, R&d) consumers will be paying for it all
- ICE ban (higher taxes, fee for operating/buying ICE vehicles) The Gas Guzzler tax on most performance cars is just extreme.
- increased technology and safety regulations
The cars from late 90s to about 2010 will be highly sought after as they provide good balance of modern tech without all the Big Brother nannies, digital screens, shifters etc.
- Labor, raw material costs etc
- EV transition costs (infrastructure, tooling, R&d) consumers will be paying for it all
- ICE ban (higher taxes, fee for operating/buying ICE vehicles) The Gas Guzzler tax on most performance cars is just extreme.
- increased technology and safety regulations
The cars from late 90s to about 2010 will be highly sought after as they provide good balance of modern tech without all the Big Brother nannies, digital screens, shifters etc.
12-13-21, 07:34 AM
#34
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I was looking at new trucks (thinking of a 3/4 or 1 ton to pull a camper) and I got so frustrated that I said screw it and paid off my half ton instead. I FLAT OUT refuse to pay the prices dealers are asking for new vehicles these days, especially trucks. I went to buy a Ram 3500 limited (non dually), and it was $94,000. I was already never going to pay that much anyway, but then they added a $10,000 "Market adjustment" on for a total of $104,000 +TTL. That is absolutely insane. There are many vehicles out there that ARE worth that kind of money, but a ram isn't one of them. I don't care how nice they get, at the end of the day, its a truck and I am going to treat it as such.
Originally Posted by Och
I find it hilarious when people are complaining about dealer overcharging them 5-10k on a 100k truck.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 12-13-21 at 01:29 PM.
12-13-21, 07:48 AM
#35
No offense, Och, but I have to agree with Josh on this one. Josh served his country and won a Purple Heart. Some dealers and manufacturers give a discount to those in the military...especially those wounded. For them to already pad an already-inflated price, and especially to those like Josh, is indeed ludicrous.
And either way, it is absolutely ridiculous for someone shopping for a $100k luxury vehicle to complain about the price. A regular cab F150 with 8 foot bed, which is an actual work truck, starts at $29,590.00.
12-13-21, 07:50 AM
#36
Lexus Test Driver
No offense, Och, but I have to agree with Josh on this one. Josh served his country and won a Purple Heart. Some dealers and manufacturers give a discount to those in the military...especially those wounded. For them to already pad an already-inflated price, and especially to those like Josh, is indeed ludicrous.
He is free to go to other dealers.
Also for ordered cars there is no markup - dealers are doing this stuff mostly on high demand showroom models because lack of inventory.
My local dealer wanted over MSRP on Mustang Mach 1 that was on the lot, there is a dealer on forums giving below invoice on new 2022 orders. Deals are still out there.
12-13-21, 11:48 AM
#37
Dysfunctional Veteran
The point being, the vehicle was ALREADY overpriced before they gouged it.
There is no reason at all for an escalade to cost $150,000. just 5 years ago, the same Ram I was shopping for was fully loaded for 60k. Now its $104,000? BS
No offense, Och, but I have to agree with Josh on this one. Josh served his country and won a Purple Heart. Some dealers and manufacturers give a discount to those in the military...especially those wounded. For them to already pad an already-inflated price, and especially to those like Josh, is indeed ludicrous.
It’s called capitalism!
He is free to go to other dealers.
Also for ordered cars there is no markup - dealers are doing this stuff mostly on high demand showroom models because lack of inventory.
My local dealer wanted over MSRP on Mustang Mach 1 that was on the lot, there is a dealer on forums giving below invoice on new 2022 orders. Deals are still out there.
He is free to go to other dealers.
Also for ordered cars there is no markup - dealers are doing this stuff mostly on high demand showroom models because lack of inventory.
My local dealer wanted over MSRP on Mustang Mach 1 that was on the lot, there is a dealer on forums giving below invoice on new 2022 orders. Deals are still out there.
Its not capitalism, its greed, flat out.
I guess I will just drive what I have for the next 50 years, fixing it when it breaks. As far as my business vehicles are concerned, I will need 7 new trucks again in a year or 2, and I will NOT pay these ridiculous prices. I will either keep putting parts into them and fixing them, or sell the business and retire permanently before I am 40. Then who's laughing?
Last edited by ArmyofOne; 12-13-21 at 12:50 PM.
12-13-21, 01:40 PM
#38
Lexus Champion
Welcome to the Great Automotive Sellers' Market of 2021-2022. In November 2021, average new-vehicle transaction prices reached 46K...up some 13% from November of last year. Here's an interesting video from an ex-dealer who used to be in the business. He argues (perhaps with some merit)? that what we're seeing today is not a fluke, but that this marks wholesale (no pun intended) changes in the industry and marketing, and that, as consumers, we may have to simply change the way we live, the vehicles we demand, and how much we are willing to pay for those vehicles. No matter how high prices go, unless it is an emergency (totaled vehicle, stolen vehicle, etc....), and we must get another vehicle ASAP, we aren't necessarily forced to go out and pay those prices. Many of our vehicle WANTS are not necessarily our vehicle NEEDS.
I know, in my case, I got an Encore GX mostly to have something smaller, easier to drive/manuver/park, and more versatile than my previous large sedan....but still with Buick smoothness and quietness. IMO, it was worth the 31K it stickered for (and I got a discount from that)...but it was definitely NOT worth the average 46K transaction price of today....or even the 36K that the dealership would be asking for that vehicle today, a year later....although I, as a repeat customer, might get at least a little break...dealerships usually like repeat customers.
I'm not a lawyer, but at least some of this video sounds to me suspiciously like collusion among manufacturers to limit supply and charge higher prices. Years ago, that was referred to as Price-Fixing....which became illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QhLONqX0LM
I know, in my case, I got an Encore GX mostly to have something smaller, easier to drive/manuver/park, and more versatile than my previous large sedan....but still with Buick smoothness and quietness. IMO, it was worth the 31K it stickered for (and I got a discount from that)...but it was definitely NOT worth the average 46K transaction price of today....or even the 36K that the dealership would be asking for that vehicle today, a year later....although I, as a repeat customer, might get at least a little break...dealerships usually like repeat customers.
I'm not a lawyer, but at least some of this video sounds to me suspiciously like collusion among manufacturers to limit supply and charge higher prices. Years ago, that was referred to as Price-Fixing....which became illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QhLONqX0LM
12-13-21, 01:43 PM
#39
Lexus Champion
I was looking at new trucks (thinking of a 3/4 or 1 ton to pull a camper) and I got so frustrated that I said screw it and paid off my half ton instead. I FLAT OUT refuse to pay the prices dealers are asking for new vehicles these days, especially trucks. I went to buy a Ram 3500 limited (non dually), and it was $94,000. I was already never going to pay that much anyway, but then they added a $10,000 "Market adjustment" on for a total of $104,000 +TTL. That is absolutely insane. There are many vehicles out there that ARE worth that kind of money, but a ram isn't one of them. I don't care how nice they get, at the end of the day, its a truck and I am going to treat it as such.
My thinking has shifted these past few years and I think I would rather have a nice fun car than a fancy pickup, so the next time I do buy one (when prices come back down, and they will), It will be the absolute most basic one I can get with 4x4. We're talking vinyl seats, air conditioning, no carpet, thats it. I can add everything else I want aftermarket and do it better and cheaper than OEM's anyway.
My thinking has shifted these past few years and I think I would rather have a nice fun car than a fancy pickup, so the next time I do buy one (when prices come back down, and they will), It will be the absolute most basic one I can get with 4x4. We're talking vinyl seats, air conditioning, no carpet, thats it. I can add everything else I want aftermarket and do it better and cheaper than OEM's anyway.
12-13-21, 01:54 PM
#40
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
How do you think I got to where I am? by wasting money on fruitless ****? Nope. I saved my pennies for years, invested, bought and sold properties, etc. I busted my *** for every penny, just as I am sure you have. There is no call for that comment whatsoever. How would you like it if someone added a $50,000 market adjustment to a house you want, just because they can? Or a 40% market adjustment to a pair of Jordans, or any other "luxury" item you might want. Get off your high horse bro.
The point being, the vehicle was ALREADY overpriced before they gouged it.
and you say trucks are overpriced even without gouging, well, you're certainly entitled to that opinion, but i know lots of people buying them, loaded up, especially many of my construction clients.
There is no reason at all for an escalade to cost $150,000.
if it's not for you, it's not for you. there doesn't have to be a 'reason' for it to make sense to everyone.
There is not one dealer out there right now that will sell an F150 for that. Even a base model. You're going to pay $40k easy, probably more.
I can say with an absolute certainty that work truck trims are in much higher demand than the loaded trims simply due to increased construction work.
if the prices aren't tenable to enough people, sales will drop and so will prices. but until then, fuggedaboutit.
You either buy whats in inventory at an artifically inflated price, order and pay whatever markup the dealer wants to attach, or you don't. Its utter garbage. And they get away with it because of the stupid franchise-dealership laws in this country.
Its not capitalism, its greed, flat out.
I guess I will just drive what I have for the next 50 years, fixing it when it breaks. As far as my business vehicles are concerned, I will need 7 new trucks again in a year or 2, and I will NOT pay these ridiculous prices. I will either keep putting parts into them and fixing them, or sell the business and retire permanently before I am 40. Then who's laughing?
Last edited by bitkahuna; 12-13-21 at 06:35 PM.
12-13-21, 02:31 PM
#41
Lead Lap
12-13-21, 05:50 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
If people are willing to pay $100,000 for a truck plus a market adjustment then good for all parties involved. I think anyone who pays more than MSRP is not making a wise decision, and the companies or dealers marking stuff up is not great either. Car prices are partly more expensive because of the green push as automakers have to add more and more technology to achieve better fuel economy standards. Stuff like over the air updates, as well as more advanced screens and other stuff like self driving tech just increases the prices. So does features like stop start as well batteries for hybrids and plug in stuff. I don’t think all manufacturers will only do the more expensive stuff…this is what people want, so careful what you wish for .I believe Toyota, Honda and Hyundai will still offer lower end stuff that is affordable as those three brands haven’t forgotten the lower priced stuff.
I also think Audi, Mercedes and BMW are not as special as they once were as the domestics now make some very nice and quite expensive trucks and SUVS coming from their mainstream brands such as Chevy or Ford or RAM. Toyota wants in on it with their new Tundra as well
.I believe Toyota, Honda and Hyundai will still offer lower end stuff that is affordable as those three brands haven’t forgotten the lower priced stuff.I also think Audi, Mercedes and BMW are not as special as they once were as the domestics now make some very nice and quite expensive trucks and SUVS coming from their mainstream brands such as Chevy or Ford or RAM. Toyota wants in on it with their new Tundra as well
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-13-21 at 05:53 PM.
12-13-21, 05:53 PM
#44
Dysfunctional Veteran
It doesn't cost $100,000 to build an escalade, when you consider the fact its 90% tahoe, its more like 25-30k. MIGHT be 50k to build something like an S class.
12-13-21, 06:02 PM
#45
Lexus Fanatic