bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

There's no question all aspects of the 'energy' and related industries (which includes transportation) are highly regulated and incentivized (and penalized) in various ways by governments. But instead of debating all that, perhaps we can stay on topic that hyundai, a pretty big player, is essentially ending new ICE development.

LeX2K

I'm asking how much and which auto makers benefit, not if subsidies exist.
What does heavily subsidized mean in actual dollars you must have some idea given the above. Tesla has not qualified since the end of 2019, Chevy has not qualified since March of 2020.

RNM GS3

I think All these automakers know something that general public doesn’t yet. That the Worldwide Government plans to abolish all new ICE cars.

NYC just passed new law banning all new building development using oil or natural gas for cooking/heating etc. The whole building will just run on electricity.

I have repeated this many times - there is way too much $$$ to be made creating a new EV industry. Politicians, businessmen, investors are all going to cash-in at expense of general public. How do you hide this fact - by claiming its all to save the environment!

In 50yrs, the new generation of activists will be complaining how EVs ruined the earth by mining for precious metals…..

https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-m...-new-buildings

RNM GS3

Governments worldwide are putting unrealistic emissions standards which are all practically banning ICE and forcing EVs to be the only solution. Do you disagree with this?

Some cities already banned ICE cars from being driven into certain parts.

Behind closed doors- I’m sure the auto executives were told ban is coming and to develop EVs asap.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

you can do your own research but as they say, it's complicated. This should help you answer your own questions.

https://www.resources.org/common-res...cle-standards/

Tl;dr - tax credits typically INCREASE the cost of EVs (and EV makers profits) as EV makers then have decreased price pressure to compete with ICE, except for companies like tesla which have long used up all their tax credits. as i've said before, govt intervention distorts market mechanisms and always has unintended consequences.

Bob04

Companies that don't sell as many EVs have to purchase carbon credits from companies that do to meet regulations. Since Tesla sells nothing but EVs, they have leftover credits that they are allowed to sell to companies that won't meet their carbon credit quota. That was $1.6 billion in 2020. And $518 million for the first quarter of this year. A completely artificial market set up by the gov that actually forced one company to subsidize their competitor. I think this year is the first time they would have actually turned a profit if they factored out the money for the carbon credit they sell.

And that kinda ties back to why I think Hyundai is stopping ICE development. Their ICE engines are good enough now, since they are producing enough EVs to meet their carbon credit quota. They will probably just use what they have going forward. Easier to just produce another EV than spend the money on R&D to get better gas mileage with ICE. And, again, this is completely different than what happened with fossil fuel subsidizes. They were put into place because our economy was starved for energy, and there was no other option. This is done to push one technology over another viable, proven solution.

Motorola

Surprised how nobody mentioned that this shakeup took place immediately after the new staff and executives were promoted across Hyundai Motor Group, most of whom are younger and in their 40s.

LeX2K

Carbon credits applied to any company why are you singling out Tesla.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Isn't it true that tesla made vastly (and i mean VASTLY) more money than any other company by selling these credits, a scheme created by government?

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

hard to know if it's been in the works for a while and this just coincided.

LeX2K

If other auto makers wanted that money they should have beaten Tesla to market.

JeffKeryk

Yep. Tesla is by far a better run company than the legacy car companies. Profits are good.

JeffKeryk

As much as I hate to say it, Hyundai has struggled to make good ICE engines. I think they are still replacing many engines to honor their warranty?

JeffKeryk

I am generally not in favor of subsidies. But signaling out EVs is kinda silly. Big oil gets what, $10B annually for exploration, development and sales of oil. And we pay the tax at the pump!
And their profits are insane right now. CA wannabe premium is $5 plus 10 cents per gallon if you use plastic.

TangoRed

What’s there to note about it? These moves [and others like Biermann being only an advisor now] have been in the works for a while. There was always a plan to grow Korean talent instead of being so reliant on foreign recruitment and with this strategy change now is as good a time as ever. We’ll see if they’re ready…

Of course it’s been in the works for a while.