Hyundai shuts down main ICE development center
12-25-21, 09:01 PM
#46
With all the automakers dropping ICE development, I think in reality we'll see a few third party suppliers building standardized ICEs for all of them. Most automaker ICEs are already more similar than they have ever been, and they often source the same transmissions and many other parts.
12-25-21, 09:11 PM
#47
The point is not to debate, but to point out where Hyundai has started. Just 15-20 years ago they were building the cheapest, rebadged econoboxes on the market, and then they have invested heavily in their own R&D, their own 6 and 8 cylinder engines. Did they even get a sufficient return on investment to simply abandon ICE development, especially that they sell a vast amount of cars in countries where EVs are decades away from infantry? I'm pretty sure they have a plan B.
12-25-21, 09:47 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
The Japanese are ahead of Hyundai by quite a bit in regards to gas burning engines. The is no question Toyota hybrids are miles ahead of every manufacturer, there is no comparison. Mercedes is on par with ICE tech among Toyota and General Motors . ICE hydrogen combustion engines will be part of the EV future, Hyundai behind the scenes are researching this tech and watching what Toyota is doing.
and i disagree. Toyota and honda at times have had significant issues with particular engines too. I had a genesis 3.3TT and now a 2.5T and they're both excellent.Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-25-21 at 09:56 PM.
12-26-21, 04:59 AM
#49
Lead Lap
This trend isn’t limited to HMG in SK- Samsung just recently made a very similar move.
12-26-21, 06:02 AM
#50
Because the game was rigged against them from the beginning. Other auto makers that produced ICE autos had to sell a bunch of EVs just to break even and not be fined. Since Tesla was all-EV from the start, every car they created generated credits, so they ended up with a huge surplus, which they were allowed to sell to ICE automakers at a huge profit.
12-26-21, 08:55 AM
#51
GM developed an EV way way back. They killed it. Toyota was partnered with the company we can't talk about. They killed the deal and sold all their stock in the company we can't talk about. Epic stupidity. Legacy auto has themselves to blame no one else, they didn't see where the market was heading.
Hyundai gets it they have halted all further ICE development and have some great EVs coming into the market.
Hyundai gets it they have halted all further ICE development and have some great EVs coming into the market.
12-26-21, 09:12 AM
#52
The "market" didn't head anywhere. That's why EVs were a failure before. They were expensive and inconvenient, and still are to an extent. The only reason the market went somewhere is because of intervention. The game was rigged for a boutique EV car company to come in and rake in cash while ICE auto makers continued to make the cars that people could actually afford.
12-26-21, 09:52 AM
#53
This thread isn't about tesla, but sorry, not sorry, that comment is just ridiculous. 'Legacy' companies have just that, a giant legacy they can't just turn off overnight. But, back to this actual thread topic, it's bold that hyundai is shutting down future ICE development and now they've actually launched models on a dedicated EV platform, they are absolutely coming after tesla and all. How successful they will be, who knows. And VW is selling a lot of EVs in europe i believe (maybe more than tesla now), and ford's mach-e is doing pretty well and the lightning should do well too.
Back to topic.. I have to hand it to Hyundai to take bold steps towards their future. I wish them well.
12-26-21, 10:05 AM
#54
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
nothing ridiculous about profits. But you said tesla is just a better run company than legacy makers. That's what i found ridiculous, as tesla was a clean sheet company and legacy companies simply couldn't do that and i know you know that so comparing them is not reasonable. tesla not only had no 'baggage' to continue or taper off, they also got VAST sums of money from carbon credit purchases by others AND consumer incentives from govt to help their sales in the early days.
Agreed.
Back to topic.. I have to hand it to Hyundai to take bold steps towards their future. I wish them well.
12-26-21, 10:21 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
nothing ridiculous about profits. But you said tesla is just a better run company than legacy makers. That's what i found ridiculous, as tesla was a clean sheet company and legacy companies simply couldn't do that and i know you know that so comparing them is not reasonable. tesla not only had no 'baggage' to continue or taper off, they also got VAST sums of money from carbon credit purchases by others AND consumer incentives from govt to help their sales in the early days.
On carbon credits and incentives they are not unique to Tesla every auto maker qualified for them equally you're basically saying Tesla had an advantage because they gave themselves the advantage by being a first maker mover. Hyundai could have tried to do the same thing but they didn't, that is their fault and theirs alone. But again, they have seen where the market is heading and are embracing it.
12-26-21, 11:16 AM
#56
Let's see... Tesla has the advantage of being a clean sheet of paper while at the same time, "Wait for the big guys to get in".
Heck, apparantly the big guys can't even build out a charging network to support their EVs. Tesla spent the money, right? And what about motor and battery efficiency?
By the way, Tesla did not start the company based on tax credits, did not know there would be credits and did not ask for them. Any other manufacturer has the same benefit available, right?
Heck, apparantly the big guys can't even build out a charging network to support their EVs. Tesla spent the money, right? And what about motor and battery efficiency?
By the way, Tesla did not start the company based on tax credits, did not know there would be credits and did not ask for them. Any other manufacturer has the same benefit available, right?
12-26-21, 01:20 PM
#57
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
If what you were saying was true then Hyundai for example could start a totally new company from scratch and build EVs for less than doing it under the Hyundai umbrella. What you're saying is quite honestly a bit crazy.
but that's not "what i was saying" either. you keep spinning things i didn't write. hyundai nor other legacy companies couldn't (or rather didn't) just start a new company from scratch because that would have been a gigantic capital gamble. sure one might say NOW that that's what they should have done, but again, easy to pontificate from the sidelines years later what legacy automakers should have done. since NONE of them did what you're saying (except maybe volvo with polestar?) i guess they're all 'crazy' in your view.
On carbon credits and incentives they are not unique to Tesla every auto maker qualified for them equally you're basically saying Tesla had an advantage because they gave themselves the advantage by being a first maker mover. Hyundai could have tried to do the same thing but they didn't, that is their fault and theirs alone. But again, they have seen where the market is heading and are embracing it.
12-26-21, 02:08 PM
#58
Start up and build out costs vastly outweigh being a clean sheet company it's not even close. If what you were saying was true then Hyundai for example could start a totally new company from scratch and build EVs for less than doing it under the Hyundai umbrella. What you're saying is quite honestly a bit crazy.
On carbon credits and incentives they are not unique to Tesla every auto maker qualified for them equally you're basically saying Tesla had an advantage because they gave themselves the advantage by being a first maker mover. Hyundai could have tried to do the same thing but they didn't, that is their fault and theirs alone. But again, they have seen where the market is heading and are embracing it.
On carbon credits and incentives they are not unique to Tesla every auto maker qualified for them equally you're basically saying Tesla had an advantage because they gave themselves the advantage by being a first maker mover. Hyundai could have tried to do the same thing but they didn't, that is their fault and theirs alone. But again, they have seen where the market is heading and are embracing it.
12-26-21, 05:45 PM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
No, the carbon credit market is a detriment to all current car makers, unless they just immediately abandoned their entire business model and stopped selling ICE and immediately switched to EV, which wasn't possible. And not something that anybody would have wanted. It was purposely built to favor new companies that were EV only and force the current makers to finance them. So no, in reality, current automakers didn't really have the same opportunity. It was rigged against them from the start.
so no need for more cheap shots at ICE makers.
12-26-21, 06:12 PM
#60
Lexus Champion
I give a lot of credit to Hyundai Jumping in the game, building great EV products (Ioniq, Kona etc), partnering and heavily investing in battery tech and basically taking a huge risk. They were a little late in the game, but better now then never. Once more people get a taste for the Ioniq 5, I believe it's going to be pretty hot seller and make Hyundai a major EV player