I haven't driven the refreshed suspensions either, maybe thats the gap we're talking about, but even the 5LS the LC is much firmer.

 

Have you driven one with the new suspension? I haven't so I don't know just how much they softened it up but a 2017 GSF vs 2018 LS/LCs has the edge going to the GSF when I drove them. Very much so when I'm past the limit and rotation starts

 

one step away from a lincoln town car is ludicrous, just hyperbole for the video.

also, mark doesn't OWN an lc - he leased one because he knew he was going to massively abuse it and will give it back at lease end for some poor slob to get suckered into buying.

and mark and jack tracking an LC is meaningless - it is not a track car.

and you CLEARLY have never driven an lc. it's an amazing suspension that provides very comfortable long distance cruising (comfort mode) and responsive handling for spirited street driving (sport, sport+ modes). mine ('21) also has the limited slip and the vgrs/rear steer which makes the steering just about go-kart like and amazing, not like some stupid town car boat. unfortunately, lexus does not offer the dynamic handling options on the convertible, only the coupe (which is what i have).

another amazing aspect of the lc500 is the massive brakes: 15.7" front and 14.1" back
they're the best brakes i've ever experienced.

the target buyer for the lc though is likely an empty nester (or no kids) who's decided to reward themselves, and isn't looking for some porsche or mclaren.

i'll take lower CoG for $200 alex... cornering in the LC is so much fun (esp. with lsd and rws) - can power out and it's so controllable. car stays very flat. i've no doubt the gs-f is VERY capable (maybe even more capable, but i don't care) so i'm not knocking it, but in the end it's still a big and tall 4 door sedan.

 

I'm not an empty nester yet, I really want to reward myself, but I'm just to cheap . For me a car has always been a tool to get from point A to point B reliably and comfortably. My IS350 is the most impractical car I ever bought. That said, when I actually become an empty nester is a few years, I may try to pick one of these up on the used market...as a reward for putting two kids through college and working my A off to provide everything my family needs

 

Mark already mentioned in his videos, including the portions I linked to, that the LC was unbearably stiff for him in its first year compared to later years. Since you probably drove the first year model, that might be why you have a totally different impression from him and Jack, since the one they've leased is from the year Lexus revised the suspension.

So what if he leased it? He put his own money into the car, it's not some throwaway press vehicle. And it's because he got to "abuse" it for over a year and put it on a track that I trust his opinion on its handling capabilities more than any ten minute drive. Perhaps you should actually watch his video to get the whole context before trying to paint his entire opinion as hating on the car when he's expressed almost total admiration for it and appreciates it for what it is.

Jack's comment on the car being akin to a Lincoln Town Car may be pure hyperbole, but claiming is that this car drives better than the GS-F is also an exaggeration. Obviously most owners aren't going to track their cars, but if they have to, the GS-F is far more capable of doing so than an LC for all the reasons Mark has already mentioned. And that's what this discussion was originally about.

 

Yet, bit owns the car with the updated suspension and agrees with me and not Mark.

Who has claimed the LC drives better than the GS-F on a track? I said I feel it drives better on the road and I stand by that. We have different definitions of what "drives better". The GS-F is too hard core and boy racerish for me.

The comment that the car feels anything like a Lincoln Town Car is just absurd. Likely neither of those guys has even driven a Lincoln Town Car lol

The capacity people here have to argue with people who have driven certain cars and even worse, those who own those cars when they themselves have never even driven them is just amazing. How can you argue with bit about how his own car drives?!

 

This is getting silly lol. Mark/Jack have spoken with the engineers, looked at the mechanics, and driven the car to its limit for a over a year now, not counting their other press experiences with the car. Do you think Bit owning the car suddenly de-legitimizes their opinion and expertise on the car even though Bit himself has never driven the car as hard as they have? Heck you haven't even driven the refresh LC before claiming that Mark and Jack have no idea what they're talking about, so don't lecture me about what people who haven't driven things can have an opinion about.

Again, the entire original context of this conversation was a response from RNM about how he considered to LC to have a more capable chassis than the GS-F. Which relates to its handling capability, which is what tracking it assesses.

 

Well duh the LC has a better chassis, that doesn't mean it grips as well though. What matters is how hard it can be pushed and how fast it can get around a corner regardless of how it feels.

I also agree the GSF is a bit too boy racerish, you can tell it's not the original feel of the car and that they had biased it toward feeling sharper and more direct while still trying to preserve most of the comfort....Like bolting on a layer of competence over something that doesn't inherently wield it, the LC just feels like a solid monolith of a body with all the work being done by the suspension.

Even so that doesn't make the LC corner as easily/predictably when pushed to the same level since you get more washout and the front end starts to show it way sooner and you can no longer feel it and have to just try and listen for tires and trust it to hold. The GSF when in the same situation due to the TVD will allow you to continue to have a strong sense of front end control and response and just gradually have the whole car start to rotate as you come in under power.

Now if the LC had a TVD and more aggressive suspension it would win fairly easily since the base platform is better. Remember they have the same amount of tire and the LC is 300lb heavier......with no TQ vectoring. You can feel it when you push the car, body roll means nothing if the car still grips and doesn't get upset when you unload it and reload it the other direction. It may "feel unpleasant" but if the car still takes and holds a set and grips it's just a driver comfort issue that doesn't really matter.

The rear steer is also something that may be a factor, I didn't have the car too long so it may just be a matter of getting used to it but it's harder to pick a line and let it load up since it reacts unpredictably/too fast vs a normal setup. Makes me feel like I'm going into oversteer and numbs the feeling from the rear.

All that said I would pick the LC overall easily, I didn't however since it wasn't fast enough for the cost and I'm still in the mindset of more power is more better lol!

 

Do you think any of that de-legitimizes Bit’s experience owning the car for over a year? I haven’t driven the refresh car but he owns it. You haven’t driven any version of the car yourself…

Mark and Jack say a lot of crazy stuff about cars that doesn’t make any sense that directly contradicts what every other reviewer says about a car. They have a strange sensibility about some things, and you’re taking what they say and using it to make conclusions that they themselves don’t actually make. For instance, if it drove like a Lincoln Town Car Jack wouldn’t own one and certainly would never take one to the track, let alone take it there regularly, he has said many times in other reviews that he hates cars that drive that way. They say certain crazy things about cars that just don’t make sense, and that is one of them.

Like I said many times, go drive one yourself.

 

i watched the video long before you posted it. and i didn't post his 'entire opinion as hating on the car', you're the one hating on it, without having driven one, based on youtube videos. knock yourself out.

the thread topic isn't even about the gs-f, it's lc500 vs is500.

 

Exactly. Jack doesn’t hate the car at all, he loves the car and owns the car, Motorola is taking one facet of what he said and blowing it up to define the car and it doesn’t define the car in any way. It is NOT a big softly sprung luxury car and drives nothing like one. That description of the car would make no sense to you if you went and drove one. It IS a comfortable grand tourer with excellent handling and a great livability from day to day.

The point, Motorola is you have no idea “what the car is” from everything you are saying about it. Best to let people who own it, or at least have driven it tell you what it is without telling them they are wrong.

 

Where am I "hating" it? You and Steve seem to be trying awfully hard to shove words in my mouth. I literally compared it to a Bentley Continental- if you take that as an insult to the car, that's your problem.

I literally told you and Bit to go watch the whole video instead of taking his line out of context. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You drove an older version of the car once, that doesn't make you an authority on the car, and your attempt to shut me up while ignoring the testimony of two guys who have driven and researched this car to the limit when you yourself have next to no experience with it reeks of irony. You continue to make this about me, but continue to deny Jack and Mark's comments on the car and how it drives, which you can't even characterize consistently.

We all agree that the LC is a grand tourer, softer and not as hard-edged as a GS-F. That's my point. You have never made any points to the contrary. You are trying so hard to craft an argument that doesn't even exist by attempting to frame me as someone attacking the car. It's hilarious and sad.

 

from savagegeese's pros/cons video on the lc500.

"it's designed to be the ultimate GT car and that's exactly what it is."

QED

any comparisons to lincoln town cars or 'not as good as x'... are either stupid, or irrelevant.

anyone wanting a track car or something harder edged, plenty of choices out there for you.

 

Me, literally half a year ago:

We are arguing over something we all agree on. Time to move on.

 

Its not an insult, it just doesn't make any sense since it doesnt drive like a Bentley Continental, which you would know if you had ever driven either car.

We have both previously watched the whole video.

I've actually driven the LC several times, just not one with the re-tuned suspension (meaning a 21 or 22) I'm not claiming to be an authority on the vehicle, but bit owns the vehicle and therefore IS an authority on the vehicle. I have at least driven the vehicle.

Soft-ER, but that's not how you described the car. This is how you described the car:

That is not an accurate description of the car. That describes something like say, an S Class coupe...which is nothing like the LC. The LC is far, far more dynamic than that. The S Class coupe is not a "GT car". You are mischaracterizing what a GT car actually is. The LC is more similar to a 911 than it is an S Class coupe, I would say its "in between" those two extremes.