mmarshall

Depends on who you negotiate with. Somebody who already knows you (e.g. repeat-customer) is likely to give you a better deal no matter how you negotiate. Not only that, but, in most cases, you can't really decide if that is really the vehicle you want or not on-line....you have to go to the dealership, look, and test-drive yourself.

SW17LS

I have considerable experience negotiating new car purchases, and I have never found that to be the case with repeat salespeople. I have always been able to do better through the fleet department online. Their mentality is just different, they understand you as an Internet customer and try and play less games and give you their best pricing more readily.

Of course you go drive cars yourself in person, but then you get a couple dealers working over email and that gets you to your best deal pretty quick.

Margate330

I don't know I just did because I felt like I wasted everyone's time and they were nice and helpful and treated me with respect even tho I came in looking like I had not a penny in my pocket.

If I was buying a new car and I was able to first test drive one from a friend or relative I wouldn't really need a test drive since I already know what I'm getting but without that I would never buy anything I'm not sure is right for me. If they can't find a way to "break the rules" it's ok I just have to go somewhere else.

Bought a new Ford Ranger years ago from a dealer and walked around and picked it out without driving it and said, "I'll take that one if we can agree on price".

Looking back at the cycle dealer I think their scary "no rides" policy was to weed out 99% of the "lookers" because they said quietly to me that there was no problem getting a test drive for serious buyers with a purchase agreement however I wasn't ready to spend my time pre-negotiating on something I wasn't sure was right for me. That's why I offered to let them hold my car title in case I dropped or damaged their property I would buy the bike.

Just FYI anyone reading this- I didn't sign the title or give my keys. It was just a token of my committment if things work out.
Even if they kept my title or tried to get wierd I would've just filed for lost title if needed.
Add- on the other hand if I were to damage the bike I would've kept my word and bought it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

i don't think 'pre-qualification' is a bad idea. to go an extreme, should a rolls royce dealership let ANYONE test drive their car? i'd at least want to do a credit check!

well that's definitely true. a dealer's job is to extract as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, from as many as possible.

doesn't mean they shouldn't do some kind of pre-qualification, but asking you to buy it before you can drive it is absurd unless it's something like a ferrari. this is a subaru

oh it's extra special all right. i'll bring lube next time.

my recent experience does not bear that out. after pretty impulsively leasing my g90 at lease end i went back to look at the santa fe. same sales guy, very friendly, but i could tell he remembered i was 'gold *****' (great credit) and spent time with me. i told him what i thought was reasonable, he didn't bat an eye, told him what i wanted for trade-in for the camry i also had based on research (he offered no equity for the g90 even though it was several thousand miles under lease and in good shape). he took all this in, came back with a deal hundreds per month more than was remotely reasonable. he'd factored in some b.s. dealer package of pinstripes and upholstry protection etc. he told he'd included free service (i later learned that's from hyundai, not the dealer!). basically he just thought he could rip me off. after a while at the dealer, i left. we continued the next day or so over text/phone/email and eventually i gave up. his mgr called me the end of the month and said what will you take the car for? i told him and he said done. i mean how hard was that.

my lexus experience a year ago wasn't a lot different (oh these always sell for over list price, blah blah - this was before the chip shortage). ultimately got the car way under list.

you gave your reasons, they had to decide risk, they took the risk, and i've no doubt they knew you were sincere. i get feeling bad but the bike wasn't for you. dealers take risks constantly. it's part of doing business.

tex2670

With all due respect, your tone is extremely disrespectful. I don't understand how you can tell other people that the way they buy cars is "incorrect". You are telling another CL member that the way that they have found works best for them is wrong. You have your way; others have their way. Neither is "incorrect". I can certainly attest to the value of negotiating over email, text and phone, without wasting time going from dealer to dealer -- it's the only way I will do it.

I don't understand how you can have 80,000+ posts on CL and still not see this.

tex2670

And you were nice, and you treated them with respect. They let you test it out because they saw you were sincere, and you were not wasting their time, but you could not get over that hump of signing up to buy a bike you didn't even get to ride. Which to me says that they see the flaw in their policy.

You did the right thing.

dwoods801

You have already owned a BRZ, and didn’t buy this one because they aren’t allowing any test drives? If you’ve previously owned one, why the big insistence on needing to drive it? I am not saying they shouldn’t have let u drive it, just curious why it stopped u from purchasing it if you really wanted it? Also, the dealership employees as a whole may recognize u, may say hi when your there getting an oil change, but your previous sales rep is probably the only one there who know your history there and the details of your purchases. Also the sales reps love to get repeat business, it’s a feather in their cap. If you went to your last sales rep and told them you missed your BRZ, you were really digging the red one, I am certain you would have been out on a drive without another word. The dealership likely doesn’t have a policy not to do test drives in any circumstance, but they have had a really high # of test drive to # units sold and thought it was best to limit it. But if the car is such a hot seller, a few test drives by qualified buyers would not result in enough miles to bother whoever ends up purchasing it.
It’s possible that the person you talked to recognized you but didn’t know if you were there sincerely interested in purchasing a car, or just their getting the oil changed in your mothers car. And for whatever reason didn’t take any time to find out what you were capable of.
The mileage is something that the managers are going to want to monitor, but rarely would u see any new car get sold with over 1000 miles on the clock. Even more than 100 is rare, except on designated demo vehicles, that the owner or manager was driving. They can be as high as 7500 miles but usually less than 5000. They say you get a better deal on a demo, but it is actually the same deal available on any new car, they charge as much as they can. In 15 years on the sales flloor, I can’t ever recall the mileage from test drives being an issue to the purchaser. Obviously you wouldn’t want to have new cars with 10,000 miles on them, but on average each car is going to go on about 4 test drives. If your cars are going on much more than that, then it’s probably a weak sales force and they need to qualify the customers better. Once you know your customers budget, their situation and capabilities, you should know if they are a buyer or not, maybe on a special car you would want a firm commitment to buy the car, if all terms are agreeable, and then the test drive is the obvious next step. Any dealer that tries to sell cars without test drives is going to sell less cars, so that’s less money they are making.

A few other topics being discussed…
The dealership is designed to put the sales process in their favor, this isn’t unusual in business, every business tries to take any advantage than can get to improve success, same as the layout of a grocery store, a movie theater or even a casino. When your negotiating online, they don’t have a captive buyer, they don’t have much leverage to temp you with. Most business models are the result of different ideas and styles evolving into the most effective methods. It may feel like a hassle going to a dealership but this is the method that has proven itself most effective. If it wasn’t the best then it would evoke to whatever worked better. Plenty of places have tried alternatives but until consumers favor a different model, it’s not going to change industry wide. When your at home negotiating online, they could offer true cost on the car, and u could never even send a reply, so they don’t even know if you even got the email, let alone what kept you from purchasing, you can just stop answering. So yes, it probably is less work for both buyer and seller, when you buy the car online, but neither of you have much invested in the negotiations so while it may seem easier, if they aren’t haven’t got any time invested, and they aren’t trying to at least salvage a deal to get something for their time, it’s unlikely you will really get a lower price by staying home. It might feel easier to negotiate from your home territory, but your likely not realizing what you could have achieved by showing up and getting them to imvest some time in you. Any negotiation is a 2way street.

mmarshall

Tho things. First, I did not tell you that your method of purchasing other vehicles is incorrect for you. What I said, and I stand by it, was that your statement of having to first set things up with the dealer on-line to avoid problems was not necessarily accurate......I rarely have any problems in person, as long as vehicles are actually in stock. Second, as for 80K+ posts, I don't care about numbers....I'm here to talk about vehicles and related topics, as I have done for the last 55+ years, even before CL. Third, with all due respect (which you don't always show me)....a number of your own posts have been less than complimentary, but I choose to overlook those negative comments and not stir them up. Avoiding conflicts is usually better than agitating them. That's one reason why the mods shut down the Debate forum.

geko29

You do know the BRZ is in its second generation, and is a completely different car than the BRZ he owned previously, right? The wheelbase is 2" longer, the drivetrain is completely different, etc. etc.

I love my E90 3-series. If I had bought an F30 3-series without driving it, I would have been horribly disappointed.

dwoods801

I am not fully up t date on the current BRZ, but I am aware that it’s changed recently. It looked like more of a facelift than a whole new car. I guess it might be quite different than the original. Just figured it would a similar drive. But again, I am on his side, if he was looking at buying it, and they wanted to sell it, the test drive should be automatic.

mmarshall

Don't want to get too far off topic, but did you get a chance to sample a 1Gen BR-Z or Scion FR-S? It drove not totally, but much like, a solid-roof-enclosed Mazda Miata....and, yes, just as tight inside for big guys like me LOL.

geko29

I sat in one years ago at an auto show. I was able to get into it, but would not have been able to drive.

RNM GS3

LOL - ye that was the whole point of the test drive for me was to experience the new motor and see the power difference. I’m sure the handling, steering and other inputs are very similar to my prior car.

Also i have no intentions to purchase that particular one on the lot. I would definitely custom order mine and currently leaning towards GR86 anyway due to styling. I have too many cars as is so I’m not in any hurry especially considering its 20 degrees in NY.

I’m sure if i go down to the dealer and waste an hour they will let me drive it but I just don’t have the patience to deal with all that. I’m sure in a few months they will be calling me and begging to take one for a spin 😀

I did finally get to sit in a brand new C8 Corvette, was passing by my local dealer and they had one in the showroom. The interior is AMAZING and 100x better than C7 which had awful plastic smell on new ones. Great seating position. Nothing about it said Chevy or looked like it was pulled from a $30k Malibu like for past Corvettes.

dwoods801

this is why they were stingy with the test drive, it being a hard car to get was probably the excuse he used, but if he thought u weren’t going to be buying it or anything today, he thought he had something better to do right then. Even if u never told him that specifically, salesmen are excellent at spotting someone who is excited about the car but not ready to buy yet, and this one didn’t have confidence in himself to convince u to buy that one then.
Ordering a car in a few months means lots of extra work and lots of time til he will be paid and maybe they are bombarded with people having the same idea. And a salesman wants to sell a car right now. The salesman lingo would be, “he Broomed you”

SW17LS

To be fair, have you ever negotiated for a car or bought a car over email from a fleet or e sales manager? I'm 99.9% sure the answer is no, and from our previous discussions you rarely negotiate a great deal anyways so I'm not sure how you're in a position to say one way is better than the other.

Having done both many many times, there is no question in my mind which is easier, less stressful and results in a better deal...doing it over email.