LexFather

Acura works to move product mix upscale; V-8 power essential, critics say


By KATHY JACKSON | Automotive News

SEATTLE -- Tom Elliott is counting on the new Acura TL to help bring the division out of a sales slump.

Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.

Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.

Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.

Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.

But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.

Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.

He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.

Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.

The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.

"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."

Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."

Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.

"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."

For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.

Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.

"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."

amy011079

and that is why they will not ever or will have a severe hard time trying to compete with lexus.

jet864

If Lex is gonna go after the S class with the new LS430, then Acura can't even get near what Lexus is doing becuase a flagship luxury vehicle will just not be worth a damn if its got a V6. No matter how advanced or how much power they can pack into it, a FWD V6 is not gonna cut it. To me, when I see an RL its nothing special either. Too "granola" if you know what I mean. Doesn't stick out at all. Well, I guess its all just for the better of Lexus then.

James

Iceman

Let's not forget that before Acura started selling the Legend and Integra, everyone said you couldn't get Americans to buy luxury cars from Japan. Now "everyone" says you have to have a RWD V-8. Sometimes "everyone" is wrong.

While I'm not sure of the new styling personally, the new TL certainly fixes the complaints that the old bodystyle was too conservative. And the base model has more horsepower that the old Type-S? Granted, there currently is no Type-S, but there wasn't in the first model year of the 2nd gen either. It's offered in either automatic or a stick, which means they're getting more serious about challenging the 3-series sedans.

Even with a V-6, the redesigned RL *could* be a contender if Acura plays their other cards right. They have a long history of providing far more for the money than other carmakers, so if they offer all the features of, say, an LS430 Ultra but for $30K less... Well, I think a lot of people will realize they can do without a V-8.

time4lexus

I'm looking forward to what Acura can do with the new RL next year.

squarehat

Saw an ad for the new TL in Motor Trend today, and it looks like a lot of bang for the buck. Sure, the styling isn't for everybody's taste (and it does look like a slightly larger TSX), but it seems to have a lot of cool features for that price point: 270HP (hope they got the automatic transmission right, this time ), Bluetooth, DVD Audio, etc. Not sure how much the gadgets add to the the cost of the car, but I have a feeling this is the reason Lexus dropped the price on the ES this year. Now, before I sound like an Acura fan, the ES is still the way to go for a brilliantly appointed, quiet, and luxurious vehicle. I'd put this car (TL) somewhere between the ES and IS in terms of its priorities.

Pagong

Its funny how some people will just jump on the bandwagon of " yeah lexus is the best, F the rest", menality is just plain sad.

Unfortunately for Honda / Acura they are trying to conform to what everybody else is doing. They want to change thier image from "street racers" to "my nose is aimed up to the sky". One thing they forgot is that those same "street racers" that bought thier cars in the first place couldve ended up buying thier new cars today.

[QUOTE] To me, when I see an RL its nothing special either. Too "granola" if you know what I mean. Doesn't stick out at all. Well, I guess its all just for the better of Lexus then. [QUOTE]

Have you seen a stock LS430? It too looks too "granola". Have you seen a stock ES330? It too looks too "granola". In stock form ALOT of cars looks "granola" because that's how the manufacturers make them, most consumers dont go for "look at me" styling, most only go for what works and what will take them from point A to point B safely and comfortably.

The only car in the Lexus line up that makes me look twice is the SC430, but other than that all Lexus models doesnt stick out better than the next car. The only people that notices the car is when people know and see the badge. Most drivers out there could care less of what you're driving.

So please let's get off our high horses and just be proud to own a Lexus without bashing other car manufacturers. Because if you are a true car enthusiast a car's brand name will not matter.

jet864

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pagong
Its funny how some people will just jump on the bandwagon of " yeah lexus is the best, F the rest", menality is just plain sad.

Unfortunately for Honda / Acura they are trying to conform to what everybody else is doing. They want to change thier image from "street racers" to "my nose is aimed up to the sky". One thing they forgot is that those same "street racers" that bought thier cars in the first place couldve ended up buying thier new cars today.

[QUOTE] To me, when I see an RL its nothing special either. Too "granola" if you know what I mean. Doesn't stick out at all. Well, I guess its all just for the better of Lexus then.

Quote:

Have you seen a stock LS430? It too looks too "granola". Have you seen a stock ES330? It too looks too "granola". In stock form ALOT of cars looks "granola" because that's how the manufacturers make them, most consumers dont go for "look at me" styling, most only go for what works and what will take them from point A to point B safely and comfortably.

The only car in the Lexus line up that makes me look twice is the SC430, but other than that all Lexus models doesnt stick out better than the next car. The only people that notices the car is when people know and see the badge. Most drivers out there could care less of what you're driving.

So please let's get off our high horses and just be proud to own a Lexus without bashing other car manufacturers. Because if you are a true car enthusiast a car's brand name will not matter.

That's not what I'm doing at all. I'm not bashing Acura. They have a few good cars. IMO, the CL-S is great, the NSX of course and the TSX kinda gets my interest. But mainly, as a flagship model, the RL is not up to par. If Acura is trying to compete with Lexus (as I'm sure most would agree, considering they're the only Japanese luxiry companies), they can not even come close on the top end. A 4000 lb ultimate luxury car with a 4.3L V8 sprinting to 60 under 6 seconds can not even be compared to the RL. Again, a FWD V6 for the best-you-can-get category does not seem logical to me. It's slow, boring, and really, I haven't heard it getting any respect from anyone, so basically as a company, I have nothing against Acura, but the RL, its gets a .

James

LexFather

No one is bashing Acura. They are ******* up and that is the truth. If u say Lexus are boring, you are not bashing Lexus, that is the truth (except the IS and maybe the GS4). If u say BMW is not reliable, you are not bashing, that is the truth. ETC ETC.

jet864

Amen. Props to those who deserve it.

James

legendary

coming from the Acura side of the house, and founding the Acura Legend-based Legendary Legendz car club, I can tell you the general consensus for most folks is the Legend was just that....the RL is a butter knife trying to slice a Butterball turkey. A major disappointment. It should at LEAST have 300hp by now. 75hp to go....Sure, I have driven a 2002 RL, it is nice inside, HID's, little pep, but it doesn't have the ***** my SC400 does, and feels only marginally quicker than my old Legend with the 230hp Type II [modded].

So again, the RL is just ok, but it gets no respect from its siblings [TL-S/CL-S have 260+hp], and most other marques have entry-level vehicles with equal to more power. Sure,the targeted segment of this car are not your racers, or babyboomers....but for crying out loud, at least be on par with cars in the same segment [LS, Q45, 540, etc]

Pagong

James,

Point well taken

1SICKLex,

Understood.

Vince
aka Pagong

LexFather

Pagong, it's all gravy baby! Legendary knows, since the Legend, Acura has been lost. I would buy a Legend before the new cars. Legend owners rarely leave their LEgend for a TL/CL or RL. They show no significant improvement outside of speed. Hell the RL shares 40% of it's parts from the previous Legend. So it's a 2004 model sharing parts from 1991.

The 1st gen Legend (which was also awesome) was Import Car of the Year too. The competition has been relentless, especially recently, even Infiniti is coming up (G35/FX series).

Acura's bright spots are their value/feature content for 30k and the MDX is a very strong seller.

gs400998

Never understand why Honda continue to manufature their 'flagship' RL with a V6 that has less ponies and costs thousands more than their TL. I guess Honda doesn't really want to compete with Toyota, Nissan and the Europeans in the luxury car market.

LexFather

Acura sales have taken offramp
By Earle Eldridge, USA TODAY
Acura, the first Japanese luxury brand, has been falling behind competitors, hurt by a product lineup light on trucks and an image that lacks sizzle.

The Acura TSX, on sale since April, has a 200-horsepower engine.


Of the seven major luxury brands, Acura, created by Honda in 1986, is the only one with declining sales this year. Acura fell to No. 5 among luxury brands last year from No. 3 in 1990.

It is a rare misstep for one of Japan's automakers, which have been grabbing U.S. market share from their Detroit counterparts.

For mainstream automakers, having a luxury brand is seen as a way to hold onto buyers ready to move to upscale models as they mature.

Beyond that, Acura has been an avenue for Honda to show its technical strength. Among the Japanese luxury brands — Acura, Toyota's Lexus and Nissan's Infiniti — only Acura sells a truly exotic car, the $89,000 NSX two-seater, which can reach speeds of more than 170 miles an hour.

But except for engine and handling upgrades, the car is basically the same as the one that first went on sale in 1991, and Acura sells only about 200 a year.

Acura says two new models, one that went on sale this week, will help revive the brand. Tom Elliott, executive vice president of American Honda Motor, is so optimistic about the redesigned TL sedan and the new TSX sports sedan, that he's predicting Acura will pull out a record sales year.

A pair of roadblocks

But to do that, it will have to overcome two obstacles:

• Acura is still at least two years away from adding a second sport-utility vehicle to its lineup, making it less competitive in the segment which has fueled sales for other luxury brands.

During the mid- and late '90s, when most major luxury brands added one or two SUVs to their lineups, Acura sold a jazzed up Isuzu Trooper, the Acura SLX. While the Trooper did fine as an Isuzu, it was less than what Acura buyers expected.

Acura finally came out with its MDX sport-utility vehicle in 2001. Although late to the game, it has been a hit. It is still hard to get and selling at close to its $36,000 sticker price.

MDX represents almost a third of Acura's sales this year through September. Without MDX, Acura's 2.2% sales drop from the same period a year ago would be worse. Overall, the auto industry is off 1.6% from a year ago, according to Autodata.

Elliott, who says Acura is developing a smaller SUV that will be on the market in about two years, says part of the problem is finding production capacity to build another product.

Jeff Schuster, head of North American forecasting for J.D. Power and Associates, doesn't think TL and TSX alone can revive the brand in the near term.

"Not with another sport-utility vehicle not due for another two years," he says.

• Acura has a problem with its image — or lack of it. "Acura has no distinguishing image," says Art Spinella of CNW Marketing/Research. It "comes out being so neutral to shoppers as to be invisible. It doesn't even show up as a brand people don't like."

Elliott says Acura knows exactly the image it wants — that of a luxury performance brand.

"The image of Acura may not be as clear as Mercedes or BMW, but we don't have the history those companies have," he says.

"The direction we want to establish for Acura is performance and luxury combined. You will see it moving more in the direction of Audi and BMW," he says.

The new TL, for instance, has more character in its exterior styling, including bolder wheels, than its predecessor. Horsepower climbs to 270 from 225 for the basic version of the previous model, 260 for the S-Type sporty version.

The TSX, an all-new model in the Acura lineup on sale since April, has a 200 horsepower engine. Both TL and TSX are available with six-speed manual transmissions.

Elliott says Acura wants to compete in the $25,000 to $45,000 market, which represents 80% of luxury vehicle sales.

Depending on options, Lexus and Infiniti's top models are priced above $60,000.

Driven by Honda

In a recent survey of the value owners place on their vehicles, Acura fell to No. 10 from No. 4 in 2002, according to Strategic Vision, a San Diego-based consulting firm.

Dan Gorrell, vice president of Strategic Vision, says the drop is partly because Acura offers fewer buyer incentives, which makes Acuras seem expensive when cross-shopping luxury brands.

But Gorrell also says Honda needs to invest more money in Acura. "Honda is a very conservative company," he says. "That culture really does well for the Honda brand. But in terms of maintaining a luxury brand, you have to keep up with the rest of the market."

Elliott doesn't deny that Honda comes first. The company, he says, has rightly focused on keeping Honda competitive.

"Honda has to succeed first and then Acura," Elliott says. "Without Honda, there is no Acura."