4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

get a TBN test and get back with me if you want to talk numbers. I've pulled some very dark oil samples before and guess what the TBN sample told me. It was still good for another 3k miles if I wanted to. New oil gets dark even in the first few thousand miles, does that mean its bad?

Striker223

Let me guess, Blackstone? Their tests are worthless, send your oil to a machine shop lube testing outfit, if you trust only the TBN that doesn't account for anything suspended in the oil like soot that will wear out components.

TBN only says how much additives are left in it, not how much carbon is in it wearing metal down.

SW17LS

What frustrates me about my Mercedes is there is no way to look at the oil, since there isn't a dipstick.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Regarding soot, on DI cars the exhaust tips would turn black within the first few days, never happened to properly running port injected cars. They might have resolved it on newer cars with soot filters.

Striker223

Does it have a blocked off tube? The Audi V8s have a dip stick tube that is capped off you can add a stick too, maybe yours also does? A lot of the stickless engines and some trans have "for dealer use only" blocked off tubes that can be used with the "factory only" service dipsticks the tech use

geko29

This. If I went by color, I would have to change my oil every time I got back from the grocery store. Anyone else here on a 5.3 mile Oil change interval with full synthetic?

Striker223

I wouldn't be surprised at all if you pull a valve cover and it's varnished and built up, my LSs, RX, and Jeep all remain clear to the point it's difficult to see on the stick up to their 5k change mark. However do what you want, the engine will last lifetime of the vehicles expected service if manufacturers cycle is followed. Change it at 10-15k and it should be okay for 150k miles or maybe it will blow like Audi and BMW did when they started 10k changes.

AJT123

Lots of cars are like that now, I agree it's pretty stupid. BMW doesn't have them either at least in some models.

SW17LS

Not that I can find...

AJT123

Yeah, I wouldn't count on finding one lol.

I know I'll get flack but I never check the oil in my cars, ever. Maybe before a long trip, even then I can't recall.

SW17LS

If you keep the oil changed regularly you really don't need to with newer cars, but as they get older you should check it periodically. I would check it on your LS430 for sure.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

so why doesnt the trace element test show anything is wrong that I run these 10k intervals along with a TBN test on several high mileage vehicles I've done the dual tests on? I have numbers to back up these tests, all you have is "this oil looks dark, therefore it needs to be changed" Diesel engines turn the oil dark within the first 1000 miles, guess its time to change it. Synthetic oils turn darker faster because of the higher amount of detergents it contains over conventional.

no one is saying to run anything to 15k, 10k is the max I would run with synthetic on an NA engine. A turbocharged engine is even less maybe 7.5k max. If the oil is still clear why are you changing it at 5k? If you want to do an even cleaner engine why not change every 3000 miles or 1000 miles?

geko29

Nope, been like that since new. it's the nature of diesel soot--the oil becomes visibly filthy almost as soon as you turn the engine over for the first time. This is the danger in assuming you know the condition of oil just by looking at it. I would literally need to have changed my oil 25,000 times at this point if visual inspection was the ultimate arbiter of oil health. It's not--that's the point.

Funny that you talk about taking off the valve cover--I did exactly that on my E46 after dutifully following the OBC intervals of approximately 17k miles. So at 125k miles, after just seven oil changes, I needed to need to open up the head to replace my VANOS seals (common problem on the M52 due to the rubber hardening over time). The entire valvetrain was absolutely pristine. Everything had a very thin coat of light amber-coated oil, as if it had just been lubed for initial assembly at the factory, and had not in fact been on the road for nearly a decade. I sold that car at 158k, but am highly confident it would have made it to 300k easily.

On my current car, I've again been following the OBC, which has resulted in approximately 13k intervals. It had to have carbon cleanup done at both 40k and 80k, but not due to the oil. The EGR throws nasty soot into the intake that cakes onto everything. So after the second cleaning I completely removed the EGR system, and it's sitting pretty (literally) at 127k miles currently.

Striker223

What do detergents do? They remove buildup. If oil goes dark quickly it means there are deposits in the engine, the trace element test is not reliable through Blackstone. Even if it was if they detect anything that means there is already wear that shouldn't be there, bronze is a big one that they don't freak out about nearly as much as you should. Diesels generate an insane amount of soot and have a massive filter vs normal cars of the same engine size and very different bearing, ring, and sleeve clearance and materials vs a gas car and overbuilt components. They very much strain oil far more and have very specific oil specs to try and counter it, the heavy duty diesels also tend to use timing gears instead of chains to avoid chain roller&pin wearout or a external to oil timing belt in cars for this exact reason.

If you see any particles, in a test that means damage has occurred. Soot that is not observed since carbon is not checked for even though it will wear out chain pins will cause chain failure and is why Dexos2 spec has anti soot additives to try and minimize this and LSPI from occurring in DI engines. It still is a way of simply minimizing, it's also why oil sumps have grown so large. It provides a cushion of capacity for suspended abrasives that allows more time before damage.

Blackstone also don't take into account that most heavy contaminants will impact and build up on the bottom of the pan as a film, pull a pan off a car that tests perfect and then test the buildup. I have and it's a vastly different story, when you drain the pan the last 1/4-1/2 inch worth of pan that doesn't drain out contains a lot of heavier particles that won't make it into the sample in the same ratio as during operation.

Also why don't you have a machine industry or aviation firm run a test? They have actual ISO certs and can carry out commercial level, insurance accepted testing. Blackstone can't and don't.

AJT123

I need to jump it off and get all the fluids warm drive it etc it’s been a dead garage queen. I actually will check the oil today.