Originally Posted by LexsCTJill

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Who is more dumb? The idiot buyer paying over MSRP...or the idiot dealer saying "DO NOT PAY MSRP...haggle with me"

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I have heard this from more than one GM of different dealerships. What are the odds that they both had the same experience and that both of their dealerships are run poorly?

The reality is that like everything else what you read in the media is not completely accurate. That article is also from November and it cites sales volume as also being up. Look at the new car sales thread on here and look at the %s sales are off YoY from 2021.



I'm not complaining, and business is fine, we're just not "killing it" the way the public thinks we are. People say to me all the time "you guys must be loving this" and we really aren't loving it. The car business is the same way, its not nearly as rosy as it looks from the outside or the media would lead you to believe.

Originally Posted by Mike728

Well, if you're one of the ones paying MSRP+, and lets them have your old car for half its worth, I guess it would be you (the buyer). I'm surprised that your defending those people that take advantage of others. Once things settle down, I hope consumers revolt against some of these worst offenders and spend their money elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Mike728

I think you and I have a different idea of what "the media" is. In my book, NADA is not a media company.

The National Automobile Dealers Association is an American trade organization representing nearly 16,500 franchised new car and truck dealerships, both domestic and foreign. Established in 1917, the organization is based in Tysons Corner, Virginia.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

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Thats the thing about data, it can me interpreted many different ways. The reality of it is that its not as rosy for dealers as the raw financial data would suggest.

Originally Posted by Mike728

Hard to tell with all the dealership upgrades going on in my area. If things were as bad as you believe, I would think they'd be closing shop, not expanding.

Originally Posted by SW17LS

I never said they were bad, I said that they weren't as rosy as you would think they would be and that net profits are down in many instances not up. The point is dealers want this situation to subside to some degree as well, they want more volume even if it comes at the expense of per unit revenue.

Originally Posted by Mike728

Well, if you're one of the ones paying MSRP+, and lets them have your old car for half its worth, I guess it would be you (the buyer). I'm surprised that your defending those people that take advantage of others. Once things settle down, I hope consumers revolt against some of these worst offenders and spend their money elsewhere.

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

the auto business is very different from construction, unless you're a HUGE builder (DR Horton, Pulte, etc). the auto companies have multi-year, iron clad deals with suppliers that must be renegotiated for changes, the auto suppliers can't just out of the blue hugely raise prices, etc.

the problem for auto suppliers is they in turn usually rely on other suppliers, many of whom simply can't supply what the main supplier needs (covid shut downs, manufacturing lines that were converted to other things because demand dropped off, etc).

auto makers are largely just 'assemblers' of parts made by other companies to the auto makers specifications. but you're going to hear 'vertical integration' more and more as they've realized how vulnerable they are.

Originally Posted by Och

The situation is unprecedented, and I'm sure there are many contracts that have been amended due cost escalations. Take something like raw steel for example, its has tripled since the pandemic, I doubt sheet metal suppliers are honoring their contracts with auto makers. They are dealing millions of tons with very low profit margins, they would all be out of business without price adjustments.