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2023 BMW i7

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Old 11-08-22 | 07:42 AM
  #346  
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Originally Posted by spwolf
300 miles of EPA is not 300 miles of your highway driving most likely. It is going to end up being 200 or 250, because people dont drive at 70mph steady and with no rain, sun, snow or elevation changes.

So what you really want is 500 miles of range, so you can do your once a year 360 mile trip, and you probably want charging to be done in 15m max, and for it to cost around $100k.
Ideally what I would want is 500 miles, but 400 miles would get me there with a quick 15-20 minute stop, which I could do to pee and get snacks and all. Thats the minimum where I personally would buy in. Honestly though, if this car had 500 miles of range I would buy it for sure despite how it looks.
Old 11-08-22 | 10:26 AM
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funny thing is few gas cars have 500 mi range and most don't even have 400
Old 11-08-22 | 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
funny thing is few gas cars have 500 mi range and most don't even have 400
Yeah but you fill them up in 5 minutes...
Old 11-08-22 | 11:35 AM
  #349  
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One of my favorite reviewers
Old 11-08-22 | 11:42 AM
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Those wheels look better than the more aerodynamic ones shown in a lot of the pictures.
Old 11-08-22 | 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LexRuger
One of my favorite reviewers
I know Doug's audience are casual viewers and not enthusiasts, but it's so funny to me how he's trying to present changing climate control temps with voice control as something extraordinary when every semi-luxury vehicle has been able to do it for the past twenty years, if not earlier.

Old 11-08-22 | 12:43 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
funny thing is few gas cars have 500 mi range and most don't even have 400

Mercedes, Lexus and BMW all have 500+ range full size luxury sedans. Lexus being the class leader of course with 620+




in fact. Lexus was ahead of the curve back in 2013 with the ES

4 miles short of 700




Originally Posted by bitkahuna
great for an around town limo and trips to/from the airport, but range is too limited for long trips.

super blingy car. designed to impress.

we'll see these on instagram a lot.





​​​​​​​
I see that the Genesis G90 didn’t make the cut in the Doug Scores

Last edited by Toys4RJill; 11-08-22 at 01:17 PM.
Old 11-08-22 | 01:01 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
funny thing is few gas cars have 500 mi range and most don't even have 400
True but the ones he seems interested are over 500. Having a 500 mile range car is convenient, not a must but convenient IMO.

Originally Posted by AJT123
Yeah but you fill them up in 5 minutes...
And at your convenience/choice.
Old 11-08-22 | 04:03 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by SW17LS
Electric motors have zero NVH. Zero. You don't realize how much smoother they are than an ICE until you experience it for yourself. Like you said, I have one of the most refined V8s one can buy and absolutely an EV is smoother. You hit the gas and it just accelerates with ZERO NVH.
Your S560 has zero VH. Just noise. Pleasing noise at that.

I’m not saying electric isn’t smoother though but in a car like yours there ain’t gonna be any vibration or harshness lol.

I would like to drive one of these. They needed to make them fast like Teslas are, they aren’t. Why anything less with a 7 series?
Old 11-08-22 | 04:26 PM
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I saw this quote in the MT article and thought it summed it up well. i7 is smoother but 760i sounds better.

Given the fact its V-8 is adapted from an M-developed engine, the 2023 BMW 760i xDrive accelerates with muscular authority that's augmented by the transmission's integrated motor, which supplies electric torque to move the car off the line with finesse. Shifts are barely perceptible, but even so this powertrain cannot match that of the i7 in outright smoothness—the subtle vibrations it produces simply do not exist in its electric counterpart. Conversely, the i7's Hans Zimmer-composed driving sounds are amusing but hardly compare to the thrum that permeates the 760i's cabin as the engine nears its redline. Less appreciable sounds are heard, too, if quietly. If BMW had opted to integrate active noise cancellation into the 7 Series, it might've lessened the tires' patter and side mirrors' turbulence.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/
Old 11-08-22 | 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Motorola
I know Doug's audience are casual viewers and not enthusiasts,...
i'm sure TONS of enthusiasts watch doug's reviews. he points out a lot of details others don't.

Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
Mercedes, Lexus and BMW all have 500+ range full size luxury sedans. Lexus being the class leader of course with 620+
of course all but one is a hybrid.

I see that the Genesis G90 didn’t make the cut in the Doug Scores
doug's scores are so contrived to fit his brand preferences, i don't take them seriously. even if he was entirely blown away by a genesis, he'd still rank 'the establishment' above it.

Old 11-08-22 | 06:40 PM
  #357  
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
funny thing is few gas cars have 500 mi range and most don't even have 400
But you can gas it up in 5 min anywhere.

All flagship sedans have 500+ miles of gas range.

Originally Posted by AJT123
Your S560 has zero VH. Just noise. Pleasing noise at that.

I’m not saying electric isn’t smoother though but in a car like yours there ain’t gonna be any vibration or harshness lol.

I would like to drive one of these. They needed to make them fast like Teslas are, they aren’t. Why anything less with a 7 series?
That just isn’t true, it has very low NVH but not zero. Trust me, I own the thing and I’ve driven it back to back with an EV. There is no engine that is as smooth as an electric motor.
Old 11-08-22 | 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna



of course all but one is a hybrid.

.
Hybrids use gas.
Old 11-09-22 | 07:53 AM
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Default 2023 BMW i7 vs. 7 Series: Lucky numbers



PALM SPRINGS, Calif. — BMW's flagship 7 Series luxury sedan just received a complete redesign, and in an unusual move, the all-electric i7 was released at the same time. For shoppers who have either embraced or rejected the all-electric future, the decision between the two should be easy. But what if you're on the fence? Here's your primer on the good, the bad and, yes, the ugly when picking which 7 is right for you.

Crunching the numbers is the most objective difference between the two. The 2023 BMW i7 has a starting price of $120,295 (including $995 destination). It has a 107.7-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack that should return 310 miles. The BMW 760i xDrive starts at $114,595 and has a 4.4-liter turbocharged V8 that should return an estimated 26 miles per gallon in combined city and highway miles.

If you calculate 15,000 miles driven annually with premium unleaded set at $4.00 per gallon and an electricity rate of $0.16 per kWh, it will take you 3.9 years to recoup the i7's $5,700 premium over the 760i. If those metrics remain consistent, you can count on savings of $1,476.89 every year after. That means if you plan on keeping your vehicle for more than four years, it makes more financial sense to go electric with the i7.

That all changes if you opt for the six-cylinder 740i base model that starts at $94,295 and has an estimated 31 mpg in combined driving. In this case, it will take you 23.6 years to recoup the i7 premium and save $1,101.68 in fuel costs annually. For most drivers, this base model 7 Series will more than satisfy and is the sensible choice. Then again, at this level of luxury, sensibility often takes a back seat to prestige.

But what about performance? BMW estimates the i7 will accelerate to 60 mph in 4.5 seconds, which is close enough to the 760i's 4.1-second sprint that we'll call it a draw. It's not like the typical 7 Series driver is going to battle it out at their local quarter-mile drags, right? Both leave the line with immediacy and sound decent doing it. In Sport mode, the i7 emits a pleasing high-tech hum engineered by film composer Hans Zimmer. The 760i has a more authentic V8 burble, but it's also enhanced with some sounds pumped in through the speakers.

It's when the road begins to bend that the difference between the two becomes apparent. The 760i weighs 5,095 pounds while the i7 tips the scales at 5,917 pounds. To the i7's credit, much of that added mass is concentrated in the floor-mounted batteries, giving it a low center of gravity. Earthbound physics won't let those 822 pounds go unnoticed, though.

On the same twisting ribbon of pavement above Palm Springs, the 760i feels light and lively compared to the i7. The i7 acquits itself well in the curves and feels well-planted, but it doesn't encourage you to push as hard as you would in the 760i. Is this really a big deal for a large luxury sedan? Probably not for most people, but this is a BMW after all, and performance is always a corporate talking point.

In everyday driving conditions, both 7s are enjoyable behind the wheel and easy to maneuver thanks to four-wheel-steering. The i7 can be driven in one-pedal mode, though, and that's preferred by most who have experience with EVs. You simply modulate the pressure on the accelerator rather than dance between it and the brake pedal. With very little practice, you can bring the vehicle to a stop right where you intended. Over time, one-pedal driving can alleviate some driver fatigue, but for most, it's simply one of those neat things you can do with an EV.

From a practical standpoint, the 760i can hold up to 13.7 cubic-feet of cargo in its trunk. The i7 is limited to 11.4 cubic-feet. On paper, that's not a big difference and in practice it's negligible. Both trunks are huge and will easily accommodate several large suitcases or golf bags. In terms of luxury, refinement and technology, the i7 and 7 Series are identical, for better or worse.

The latest evolution of BMW's iDrive infotainment system seems like a step backward, as it is overloaded with features in an unintuitive maze of menus and settings. It's the same in either 7 sedan, and unfortunately inescapable, which leads us to common items you may want to avoid. We caution shoppers against selecting the high-gloss wood and carbon fiber dashboard trims as they tend to reflect some very harsh glare from the midday sun. Go with the open pore wood choices instead, as they don't suffer from those reflections and add some visual warmth to the cabin.

We're also not thrilled with the striking 31.3-inch Theater Screen for the rear passengers. Its central positioning could cause some neck fatigue compared to more traditional seatback displays, and the lack of rearward visibility is alarming. Unfortunately, if you want the reclining Rear Executive Lounge Seating option, you'll also have to take the Theater Screen.

Thankfully, you're not obligated to add one of the most frustrating options: the power-operated doors. In theory, this feature can be a useful novelty, but its execution can be downright maddening. You have to stand well to the rear of the door to open them, and even then, they don't work consistently. More often than not, the door will open slightly and you'll have to pull it the rest of the way against some noticeable resistance.

Then there's the elephant in the room: the new 7 Series front-end styling. The exaggerated grille seems out of scale, the new split headlights look disjointed, and the recessed chin spoiler reminds us of a cartoonish overbite. Sure, style is subjective, but when we recommend spending some time in the configurator with darker paint choices, that's the automotive equivalent of saying someone has a great personality when asked what they look like. Your results may vary, but we doubt it.

So where does that leave the decision between the electric i7 and gasoline-powered 7 Series? If you value sharper handling, go with the 760i xDrive. For everyone else, it makes more sense to step up to the i7. As far as range anxiety goes, we contend that after 300-plus miles on the road, we could all use a break that is longer than the typical refueling at the pump. As added incentive, i7 owners enjoy three years of free unlimited charging on the Electrify America network.

With new legislation, EV chargers will be much more prevalent and reliable. To combat the misinformed, "EVs are as bad as gas cars," argument, BMW has drastically reduced reliance on rare earth metals in its electric motors and is aiming for carbon neutrality across all manufacturing elements. By all accounts, it does indeed seem as though the time is right for the BMW i7. Our key suggestion is simply to order wisely.
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Old 11-09-22 | 07:54 AM
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Default BMW dishes on its NKL platform tech specs

Up to 30 miles of range per charging minute, up to four motors with 1,341 hp

BMW applied the name "Neue Klasse" to a range of cars from 1962 to 1977, starting with the BMW 1500 that broke open a sport sedan segment and began to establish BMW as that segment's leader. The Munich automaker resurrected the term for what it hopes will be another revolution, this time christening its new EV-focused platform the Neue Klasse (NKL). The brand has opened up about the NKL's technical aspects over the past few weeks, Car magazine providing a summary of what Chief Technical Officer Frank Weber had to say. Starting with the battery, BMW's tied up with cell makers CATL, EVE, and Northvolt on circular cells that will be 1.8 inches in diameter and either 3.7 inches high for use in cars or 4.7 inches high for use in crossovers. That makes them the same diameter but taller than the 3.1-inch Tesla 4680 cells.

Different cell chemistries have been developed depending on the use case, prioritizing power for M cars, low cost for entry level models, long range, or low degradation. In ideal configurations, the new cells are up to 20% more energy dense than BMW's current packs and increase packaging efficiency by 30%, return up to 30% more range and 30% faster charging. On top of that, they're said to be 20% lighter, cost roughly 50% less to produce, and emit an estimated 60% less CO2 emissions during production. Weber said owners will see 30 miles of range added per minute at peak fast-charging rates, up to 375 miles. The company told Autocar previously that EV range will max at 1,000 kilometers, or 621 miles.

Batteries will come in capacities ranging from 75 kWh to 150 kWh, juicing one-, two-, and four-motor powertrains ranging from outputs of 268 horsepower to 1,341 hp. Car said the M division is testing an electric prototype now, we'll guess it's pushing the four-figure mark.

As for longevity, worst case is expected to be at least 80% capacity and performance after ten years of use. Engineers have developed the system with various types of recycling in mind, including a "rethink of how recycled parts can be used in new models, and how recyclable those cars can be at the end of their life cycle." The aim is to better the stat that just 9% of materials used in making batteries get reused.

BMW board member Nicolas Peter said we'd get our first look at what the NKL wants to make possible with a Vision Vehicle Concept coming to the 2023 Consumer Electronics Show in January. Mum's the word on styling, but we should expect the "breakthrough efforts" to be edgy. The automaker's head of Efficient Dynamics was more forthcoming about aerodynamic goals. NKL refinements are anticipated to yield a 25% gain in aerodynamic efficiency, on top of new low-rolling-resistance tires that will be 7% more efficient. An Autobahn mode when traveling above 70 miles per hour cuts drag even more.

Roadgoing versions of the NKL are due in 2025 with the debut of the new i3, the electric 3 Series, and the next-gen iX3. That same year, BMW plans to show a prototype solid-state battery, which will one day deliver another tech leap.
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