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this ignores the fact that lexus' competition (mb, bmw, audi, etc) all moved MASSIVELY in response to the upstart lexus. the competition impacted lexus and they chose not to spend massive money to keep up the gs/sc and instead go with safer bets like ux/nx.
Right, and Lexus stood still and let them just run right over them. The net result is Lexus is more like Acura or Lincoln than MB or BMW, selling warmed over reworked FWD Toyotas and not developing anything for those of us that want cars that really compete with the world class.
MB and BMW went from completely reworking their product lines in response to Lexus, to not even considering Lexus as a competitor...but nothings changed...
Right, and Lexus stood still and let them just run right over them. The net result is Lexus is more like Acura or Lincoln than MB or BMW, selling warmed over reworked FWD Toyotas and not developing anything for those of us that want cars that really compete with the world class.
The RZ/BZ4X are the biggest question marks to me. When given the chance to develop an EV platform from scratch, Toyota decided to make it FWD-based when pretty much every other manufacturer made theirs RWD-based, even Volkswagen who saw it as a chance to finally overcome Audi's FWD limitations. They go out of their way to deliberately avoid competing with the German brands even when given the tools that equalize the playing ground.
The RZ/BZ4X are the biggest question marks to me. When given the chance to develop an EV platform from scratch, Toyota decided to make it FWD-based when pretty much every other manufacturer made theirs RWD-based, even Volkswagen who saw it as a chance to finally overcome Audi's FWD limitations. They go out of their way to deliberately avoid competing with the German brands even when given the tools that would allow them to build cars at that level.
Exactly. They are making a fundamental choice that this is what they want to be...and thats fine but we have to call a spade a spade.
this ignores the fact that lexus' competition (mb, bmw, audi, etc) all moved MASSIVELY in response to the upstart lexus. the competition impacted lexus and they chose not to spend massive money to keep up the gs/sc and instead go with safer bets like ux/nx.
Oh no, I've mentioned that many, many times in all different kinds of threads. That's how good Lexus was. Even the ES300 which was a Camry was very, very, very well done especially compared to other rebadge jobs. That looked fantastic, drove very nice, had a smooth as silk engine, frameless windows, and a completely different very luxurious interior. They spent legit money upgrading the Camry to the ES, when other brands the "effort" was mediocre to pathetic in most other cases.
I agree with your whole post. Except I think Lexus has still got it though when they really try, just look at that LC in your garage.
The RZ/BZ4X are the biggest question marks to me. When given the chance to develop an EV platform from scratch, Toyota decided to make it FWD-based when pretty much every other manufacturer made theirs RWD-based, even Volkswagen who saw it as a chance to finally overcome Audi's FWD limitations. They go out of their way to deliberately avoid competing with the German brands even when given the tools that equalize the playing ground.
They just build what they are comfortable with. BZ4X packaging is exactly like their ICE car, they didn't adjust the approach at all. I'm not sure if it's like that because of tooling, lack of technology or just philosophy. With lack of prestige gap you would have thing they packaged it tight like Lucid or Sony.
Which GS did you have? And I did not know you had it for 16 years
ha, no, i had it 16 years AGO, bought it in 2000 i think and sold it in 2006. it was a gs400, pretty tricked out (suspension, performance, wheel upgrades, etc). i just searched through 2gs forum for a pic.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Right, and Lexus stood still and let them just run right over them.
exactly, and that's why my point is lexus hasn't changed that much, they haven't done enough! that's lessened their stature in the market.
The net result is Lexus is more like Acura or Lincoln than MB or BMW, selling warmed over reworked FWD Toyotas and not developing anything for those of us that want cars that really compete with the world class.
precisely. you and i moved on because we didn't have more lexus to aspire to. i came back because the LC is the lexus unicorn.
MB and BMW went from completely reworking their product lines in response to Lexus, to not even considering Lexus as a competitor...but nothings changed...
yes!
Originally Posted by Motorola
The RZ/BZ4X are the biggest question marks to me. When given the chance to develop an EV platform from scratch, Toyota decided to make it FWD-based when pretty much every other manufacturer made theirs RWD-based, even Volkswagen who saw it as a chance to finally overcome Audi's FWD limitations. They go out of their way to deliberately avoid competing with the German brands even when given the tools that equalize the playing ground.
i have no doubt there were big benefits to toyota in doing this... let's face it they have FAR more experience in fwd plus supply chains in place, so even if the drive train is different, their experience in suspension packaging for fwd for example probably meant lowered dev cost and likely time to market for the new ev's.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Oh no, I've mentioned that many, many times in all different kinds of threads. That's how good Lexus was. Even the ES300 which was a Camry was very, very, very well done especially compared to other rebadge jobs. That looked fantastic, drove very nice, had a smooth as silk engine, frameless windows, and a completely different very luxurious interior. They spent legit money upgrading the Camry to the ES, when other brands the "effort" was mediocre to pathetic in most other cases.
I agree with your whole post. Except I think Lexus has still got it though when they really try, just look at that LC in your garage.
By making the top of the spindle grill color matched they turned it into 2019 Highlander grill.
Mazda has the beluga nose on the CX line but they implement it much better than Lexus.
It’s just part of their long running experiment. How much they can get away with and still have the public buy their product.
It was probably a bet between the Toyota board members who belong to an old boys club one Sunday night after downing a dozen sakis.
I will test drive forthcoming RX.
Previous generations of RX's just haven't driven as smoothly as Benz ML/GLE nor BMW X5, and that's turning a blind eye to the handling.
I will test drive forthcoming RX.
Previous generations of RX's just haven't driven as smoothly as Benz ML/GLE nor BMW X5, and that's turning a blind eye to the handling.
I suspect the 500h will drive quite different with eAxle. The 450h and 350h will drive like the NX with a bit more sound insulation. Handling will be good, but not class leading. But definitely better than the old RX.
C&D just tested the MDX Type S and got 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which makes it currently the slowest in its class. At the very least, Lexus should try to make the 500h faster than the Acura.
C&D just tested the MDX Type S and got 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, which makes it currently the slowest in its class. At the very least, Lexus should try to make the 500h faster than the Acura.
Just me, but I think it is more important to ride smoothly and quietly like Benz GLE.
The 0-60 and the handling is the icing on top of the cake, because at least 90% of drivers will not full throttle nor dump midsize high riding wagon into corners.
06-05-22, 05:22 PM
