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I do like the none screen LS. But to me, it’s too much like a Toyota than it is a luxury car IMO
I could see that viewpoint.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Your LS430 is an interference engine, it’s not a non interference engine. My ES300 is a semi-interference engine. It might be fine, or it might not.
There’s a reason why manufacturers have ditched belts for chains, they’re just better. Less maintenance.
It’s one of the reasons why the 460 is less expensive to maintain than a 430 despite having more expensive issues that can go wrong. Every 90k miles the 430 WILL cost you $1,500.
I know it's interference. I also realize it has a .001% chance of it breaking while driving. These things just don't happen.
EDIT: sorry, in that last post about a trip I meant to say if YOU took a trip in your ES it would just be stalled on the side of a road. Didn't mean me. I know that if it broke the engine would be toast.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
The 430 was obviously designed for the screen, and the non screen has a lot of awkward looking plastic I agree. The 400 looked better with buttons since that’s what it was designed for.
The 460 without the screen (which existed in 2007) look even worse.
Would have been nice for them to make a 2010 without the screen. I actually like this look:
Hey, sometimes you can't place a value on what you like. If you like the car so much and you can easily budget for the maintenance, who cares what it's worth?
At least if it did break on a trip, it wouldn't nuke the engine since that's a non-interference engine. Just have to wait for a tow truck.
If someone can’t afford the maintenance on a car, then they shouldn’t in it.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Your LS430 is an interference engine, it’s not a non interference engine. My ES300 is a semi-interference engine. It might be fine, or it might not.
There’s a reason why manufacturers have ditched belts for chains, they’re just better. Less maintenance.
.
yup, 4.3 is interference. …I still have one engine in the cars we have that is belted. It’s always yin the back of my mind that it could break. Here is the thing, they only do belt because of cost, before the UZ, Toyota had chain driven engines as well. Some were double chain if I’m correct.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
The 430 was obviously designed for the screen, and the non screen has a lot of awkward looking plastic I agree. The 400 looked better with buttons since that’s what it was designed for.
The 460 without the screen (which existed in 2007) look even worse.
‘Yeah…LS430 is definitely made for a screen
I can appreciate the non screen, but i like to buy brand new. So if the screen is there, I would definitely get it.
The 400 looked better with buttons since that’s what it was designed for.
The 2nd gen did have a nav system. It looked very good too. Not sure if it was in America.
^^^ this looks better than the LS430. I never liked the quality of the plastic on the LS430 for the HVAC area
The issue with belts is the cost to replace them. $1,500 every 90k miles for a maintenance item is a lot, and you get to the point like I am with the old ES300 where it just doesn’t make sense to replace the belt because of the cost vs the car’s value, so you ride it out on an old belt and if it breaks, well there is the end of the car.
I find it hard to believe that 30k miles more than the life of the belt I’m going to have chain problems, so 120k everybody has chain problems? I just don’t see that in reality at all
Oh you see it a lot around 110-150k miles with normal owners who don't change oil often and with cheap stuff. Lots of tensioner rattle/failures, VVT failures, correlation codes etc....ford 5.4 is a great example of this.
It's insane how few cars I've seen with belt issues vs the pile of cars with chain related problems. It CAN be okay if you are like people here and maintain it but it is just as likely to screw up under normal owners. The hesitation issues the 460 has is from chain wear, I actually fixed one and sure enough at 148k it was stretched. Not enough to throw codes but the owner doesn't change oil often enough and uses conventional, it wore out the rollers.
The chain usually doesn't hard fail, it just starts doing strange stuff related to timing. If you pushed it hard it would make the issues quite clear. In most domestics and German cars if the chain is stretched just enough to not trigger the correlation code and you floor it they can tap the valves on an upshift. The DSG VW 1.8/2.0s engines are infamous for bending valves from this.
Not an issue if you keep up with oil changes but.........the rollers will wear if you don't and will still wear eventually. I think belt or gears is the way to go for the longest service life
2nd gen did have a nav system. It looked very good too. Not sure if it was in America.
^^^ this looks better than the LS430. I never liked the quality of the plastic on the LS430 for the HVAC area
Yeah it was available in the US too 99-00. Oddly enough you couldn’t get it with the Nakamichi audio. Nakamichi refused to let their system be controlled through a screen which was one reason why Lexus dropped them for Mark Levinson.
Those plastics in the LS400 were great. A slight metallic sparkle, really great.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Till you have a chain failure or stretch......then the $4500 bill will make a $750-1000 belt change seem cheap. VW owners have it the worst by far
That just doesn’t happen on well engineered cars. Because it happens to VWs doesn’t mean it will happen to Toyotas with timing chains.
And remember is $1,000 a change. If you have a properly maintained car you will have $3,000+ invested in belt replacements over 250,000 miles. That’s a WILL, the timing chain failure is a MIGHT.
Somehow I’ve been a CL member for 10 years and have seen nobody with any sort of timing chain problem, and cars way over 110k miles.
Already so many great posts, I like to add an alternate view just for contrast if I can.
Been helping out a lot in the older forums for DIY and many of the peeps choose the older cars and DIY repairs themselves to save money.
Example:
My 2004 RX330 uses a timing belt and is an everage DIY job for approx $300(water pump, tiing belt, pulleys, the works!)
However, if my car was just 3 years newer like a 2007 RX350 with timing chain It is no longer in scope of DIY and car has to be put on a lift and the engine cradle dropped to fix a timing chain/guide problem. Probably get junked when high mileage due to very high repair costs vs DIY timing belt job.
Some people from what I hear have done it on jack stands but it takes a lot longer and lots more parts have to be removed and it's a nightmare. lol
Look into the VVT phaser issues on the 2GR engines that the 350 uses, it rattles like a bad AC clutch at as low as 80k miles and can kill the whole engine if they fail completely. You also need to drop the engine to fix it.....I've done two.
When new the ES350 had a service campaign for the noise coming up as early as 10k miles.
Oh, ford cyclone engine. That's a great example of why chains can be a really bad idea.
I don't really care, I own many cars with both but it's not just one sidedly chain is best.
A timing belt job is not a DIY job for 99% of vehicle drivers.
Find an RX350 that has had a timing chain/guide problem, but EVERY RX330 needs a timing belt every 90k miles and it’s going to cost the owner $1,000 each time because extremely few owners would consider doing any such job themselves.
Or just drive it past 150k like 90% of all my belt customers........I had to replace the chain in one. They changed oil every 12k or so and it wore it out.
Just the base version. I don't mind it having a belt. Even with all the miles I drive, it needs done only once every 3 or so years.
Scotty Kilmer did a review of a customer's 430 not long ago (maybe last year) and he went on to say that he never once saw a belt break on an LS of any year.
I agree, they blew it with the Sequoia in many ways... engine, cargo capabilities, etc.
It would really depend on the vehicle. I think Acura still has some models with a belt.
I bet if you were to daily that ES, it wouldn't break for a long time. I've heard that on any Lexus that had a belt that is a very rare occurrence for them to break, even with high mileage on them.
HAHAHA well at least he was dedicated enough to want to do it himself.
Yeah if it were me, I'd probably throw the wrench out of frustration. LOL
Not true on the LS, I had one break......after the customer changed it at 180k he went to 378k before it went. I kept warning him but he didn't care and just moved to a 460 when it went. The 460 lasted to from 70-180k before the actuator went with no fluid changes.
Even if it breaks on the ES it won't matter, it's not interference
Or just drive it past 150k like 90% of all my belt customers........I had to replace the chain in one. They changed oil every 12k or so and it wore it out.
Its still something you have to think about and a risk you have to take, iI’d rather just the lower maintenance chain.
It pains me not to do the maintenance that is called for, but the car is so old and worth so little it just doesn’t matter. It’s frustrating to have a good car that’s just really old with such an expensive wear maintenance item.
The belt rarely, if ever, breaks on its own, usually a seized pulley causes the belt to breaks. Generally, Toyota OEM pulleys never seize, they can last for 300k miles, and will give plenty of warning (squeaking, etc) before they go, so the original belt doesn't really need to be replaced. A lot of people replace it when their crank/cam seals starts to leak, of when their water pump starts to leak because some idiot mechanic added wrong coolant. And if the shop doing the timing belt job uses any aftermarket parts with pulleys, they WILL fail and very soon, and cause the belt to break too.
More stubborn than dedicated. Had to prove a point to my wife and friends who were telling me to "just take it to the shop", lol.
Yep. People ignore it though or think it's serpentine belt noise. I did my belt at 220k and last one was done at 90k, factory rotating bits were somehow still good.....still replaced them but it was surprising.
Hey, sometimes you can't place a value on what you like. If you like the car so much and you can easily budget for the maintenance, who cares what it's worth?
At least if it did break on a trip, it wouldn't nuke the engine since that's a non-interference engine. Just have to wait for a tow truck.
EDIT: the last paragraph was directed for you, meaning if you took your ES on a trip. Sorry for not clarifying.
Uh....it would nuke it from high orbit. The VVT UZ engines totally kill themselves at any RPM if the belt goes
If someone can’t afford the maintenance on a car, then they shouldn’t in it.
yup, 4.3 is interference. …I still have one engine in the cars we have that is belted. It’s always yin the back of my mind that it could break. Here is the thing, they only do belt because of cost, before the UZ, Toyota had chain driven engines as well. Some were double chain if I’m correct.
‘Yeah…LS430 is definitely made for a screen
I can appreciate the non screen, but i like to buy brand new. So if the screen is there, I would definitely get it.
The 2nd gen did have a nav system. It looked very good too. Not sure if it was in America.
^^^ this looks better than the LS430. I never liked the quality of the plastic on the LS430 for the HVAC area
I agree 100%. This does look so much better than the 430. Something about this one just looks higher quality. Maybe it's the materials and the arrangement of the buttons. The size of the screen is also good.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Not true on the LS, I had one break......after the customer changed it at 180k he went to 378k before it went. I kept warning him but he didn't care and just moved to a 460 when it went. The 460 lasted to from 70-180k before the actuator went with no fluid changes.
Even if it breaks on the ES it won't matter, it's not interference
Amazing he went that many miles before it broke. Just goes to show you how well-built these cars were. The 90k change for a belt was definitely pre-cautionary since I read somewhere that they designed the belt, pulley's, and everything else for more like 150-160k miles.
Originally Posted by Striker223
Uh....it would nuke it from high orbit. The VVT UZ engines totally kill themselves at any RPM if the belt goes
I mean in the original post that Steve could take his ES on a trip and not have to worry about engine damage. I messed up and made it sound like I wouldn't have to worry about such problems, which I fully knew about the interference engine a long time ago.
Its still something you have to think about and a risk you have to take, iI’d rather just the lower maintenance chain.
It pains me not to do the maintenance that is called for, but the car is so old and worth so little it just doesn’t matter. It’s frustrating to have a good car that’s just really old with such an expensive wear maintenance item.
Toyotally agree
Originally Posted by Striker223
Uh....it would nuke it from high orbit. The VVT UZ engines totally kill themselves at any RPM if the belt goes
Ha. Nuke it from high orbit.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Yeah it was available in the US too 99-00. Oddly enough you couldn’t get it with the Nakamichi audio. Nakamichi refused to let their system be controlled through a screen which was one reason why Lexus dropped them for Mark Levinson.
Those plastics in the LS400 were great. A slight metallic sparkle, really great.
my knowledge of Lexus sedans and cars is not the greatest for all the details. Interesting
I agree 100%. This does look so much better than the 430. Something about this one just looks higher quality. Maybe it's the materials and the arrangement of the buttons. The size of the screen is also good.
.
Because it is. Manufacturers almost always find ways to cut costs as generations go by. Lexus LS was a nice car, but I never admired the styling..some says the 2004/05 LS430 looks much nicer than the 2001-2003 models, but I can’t tell the diff. .
The fact that they never offered a V12 was a big disappointment. High quality interiors and good reliability for sure.
06-11-22 | 04:34 PM
