AJT123

Oh I didn't mean them, like Bentley. I should have clarified.

BMW, Audi, Lexus, they're all just a step below MB cachet wise.

Margate330

Yeah, I'm talking about cars most of us know something about. Lol

I've never seen inside of a Bentley.
Way out of my price range, I'm talking about mainstream cars.

Striker, your knowledge of high end cars is impressive.

SW17LS

I will say, I would miss looking down the hood at the three pointed star…

Striker223

Depends on class of car, Mercedes has the distinct edge of being single entity so unlike the VAG group the S class etc isn't held back from threatening Bentley etc. That's why my car was never allowed to have the turbos for example, couldn't have the A8 stepping on the toes of the flying spur.

BMW has always done better in the mid-range IMO, the 7 has never really been that great in its class and is consistently behind Audi for tech/performance and always rides worse than the S-class. I have never really been attracted to their top offerings over the other options

Lexus isn't in the conversation anymore....

patgilm

I test drove a loaded i7 AWD version when it first came out and it was really nice and drove great but just too garish for me. The interior was like I was in a Las Vegas club. I did like the color of the one I test drove which was black/black and had some decent wheels but I like a sportier look than a luxurious look.

Striker223

Thanks lol, it's a double edged sword since it leaves you utterly dissatisfied/wanting ever higher end. My W12 is the first car that I don't "see" a clear upgrade path from that isn't stupid expensive, the only thing I would want/actually makes me the feel the same driving is a 2019+ Flying Spur Speed and I sorely regret driving one.

It's the best sedan I've ever driven and it's not even remotely close other than my current one, I would say it's 80% of my "benchmark". The way it is just uniformly so excellent is exactly like my D4 but just elevated even more, the ease, control, materials, interface, and emotion is the same perfect harmony but just more intense right down to the smell.

However $150k out of pocket is a lot. Not sure it's worth that to me yet, maybe in a few years I guess but I want an ultra fast car first. I have a high end dealer near me that is a horrible place since they have everything you can possibility imagine right on the showroom floor, it's bad since you can ruin yourself in just a few hours.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

not 0-100 but as i said, that's not the norm. from their website:

Margate330

It sounds like at a certain point, incrementing upward results in dimishing returns, if I understand what you are saying.

If your goal was performance, elegance, styling, build quality -for the money- I think you hit it with the Audi V-12 with deadly sniper precision.

It would probably be well over $100k to get a car like that new but I don't know for sure, just ideas.

Striker223

Back in 2012 my car was $189k sticker so somewhere around $240k today lol! Diminishing returns are 1000% a thing and it's why I struggle to really spend all that much on a single car, value is just not there most of the time.

It won out because the balance of attributes was near perfect as you said, other options just lacked certain elements and weren't that perfect package that does everything insanely well. The S8 lacked grace when slow/low demand and instant response when I wanted to go from gliding silk to 150+ full hammer, I just couldn't find that "relaxed" place I like a lot that the LS series has with the 4.0 cars. Solution was simply to get the ultimate engine configuration so I had NA response/elegance and still the level of power I wanted. The transmission is perfect and in some ways I prefer it to the PDK since it does smooth much better

SW17LS

I would say historically that has been the case, but not this time. All you have to do is sit in the W223 and the new 7 and styling aside which is a matter of taste, the new 7 is a much nicer car inside than the 223 S Class. The material choices just blow it away as does the build quality. From a ride perspective like I said, it’s the best riding most refined car I have ever driven, besting the S Class. Now it’s not fair to compare an EV to an ICE car I have not driven the ICE 7 but from a ride quality perspective the i7 I drove rode better than my W222 or the W223, it’s subtle but it’s a win. The A8 is just not in the conversation anymore, it feels ancient compared to either car.

I just think the 223 as a vehicle is not the same caliber a product as the 222 was.

TangoRed

I never had a problem with the tablet design to be honest. I like the screen in both orientations. For me, the 7-series interior is just too busy. There’s a lot of different materials and designs going on all over the place. Very high quality though.

All this to say I will never fault someone for buying a 7-series especially with the discounts available. If the looks aren’t an issue it’s hard to see a downside.

Margate330

It is if someone is looking for max bang for the money spent unless it has to be new.

Yeah, newer cars have more techy features but to me as a programmer it does not impress me one bit. Lol

It's like the chrome on cars in the 1960's when more was better up to the point nobody wants it anymore except within reason and practicality. Lol

Striker223

You would be correct the 223 is not what the 222, the new 7 is very nice inside but the exterior just kills it for me. The interior materials are great but I don't like the layout/style as much, it's very loud/trendy and lacks class IMO. I drove the V8 version and it's heavy as hell and you can feel it when you push the car, at around 7.5-8/10 the car feels like it grows and becomes hard to really go full out.

I'm not surprised by build quality as BMW has really upped that game and Mercedes has always been "eh" for certain things for no reason and to at will stand out if someone else puts in max effort.

The A8s have always had an edgy feel and if ride is your concern it's not for you, they are the athletic choice that is borderline twitchy for the class. I love them for that since they feel like an extension of my intent, if you don't really drive the car or ever "use it to it's ability" then it will just feel unsettled/nervous/edgy etc....that's actually one reason I went with the 12 since it has a bunch of extra stuff/insulation that damps that down while still having the teeth of the S8 with shared suspension/brakes/etc etc.

jrmckinley

I am continuing my research for our next SUV - have my eyes on the new GX, new Land Cruiser, and the 2024 Traverse. However, just watched a review of the 2024 Traverse - it shows the Z71 and RS. Both are using this weird red color as an accent in the interior that runs along the front dash area and I believe also in the door panels. I initially saw that and thought it was only on the RS (as the exterior was red also), but then the video showed it inside of a silver Z71. Weird choice and would likely steer me away from seriously considering it.

mmarshall

I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Mercedes products before the early 1990s, when newly-competitive Lexus and Infiniti came along and forced Mercedes to cut costs. Before that period, M-B had what were probably the highest-quality and most overbuilt vehicles on the planet....for a price. But, by the late 1990s, a noticeable drop in quality and the solidity of construction was apparent....although Mercedes (and Volvo) still kept their reputations for safety-innovation.

I remember having a chance to sample a Mercedes 190 from the 1950s.....several decades after it was built. It was unbelievable......felt and drove like the day it was built, with sewing-machine precision, particularly the clutch and manual transmission.