General Car Conversation
08-23-23, 10:55 AM
#6181
Lexus Champion
I still maintain they are just borrowing from Rolls with that beltline and front end, in person it's VERY apparent and looks overwrought. The visual definition of try hard IMO
08-23-23, 01:29 PM
#6182
I’m a big fan of previous S but the last few encounter I felt like it looked dated compared to the new one.
no love from the guy who sold you the lc? I recently got an email from my lexus guy that I got one from him more than 10 years ago. They must not sell as many as they had hoped.
in other car dealer news...
the sales guy i bought my '15 jeep grand cherokee from (long gone now) called me to see if i'm interested in anything.
and the sales guy that sold (leased) me the '18 g90 and '21 santa fe has moved to a chevy dealer and called me to see if i'm interested in anything.
nice to be wanted.
the sales guy i bought my '15 jeep grand cherokee from (long gone now) called me to see if i'm interested in anything.
and the sales guy that sold (leased) me the '18 g90 and '21 santa fe has moved to a chevy dealer and called me to see if i'm interested in anything.
nice to be wanted.
08-23-23, 02:31 PM
#6183
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
the w222 has a more imposing presence than the w223 which i know is something that you're looking for. i prefer 'svelte' to just 'huge' and exaggerated features like the absurd front clip of the new i7. wth are they doing with all that space with no frunk?
I honestly believe the W222, was a better car than the W223. The 223 has the advantage of being quieter, which is a huge thing for me, it has the available rear axle steering, which one pays dearly for in the USA if they want it, the 4D audio is a bit nicer than the 3D and the interior & exterior color choices are more varied, but honestly, THAT’S IT, at least for me.
After owning 2015, 2018 & 2020 S560’s and now my 2022 S580, here are my thoughts, MY OPINIONS:
1. The 222 was available with or without 4-Matic, something I don’t want or need, but is shoved down my throat in the 223.
2. The 222 was available with the truly magnificent Magic Body Control or "MBC." The much more expensive EABC, which replaced MBC, in comparison, is absolutely dismal in providing a comfortable ride.
3. The 222 was available with 18” to 20” wheels, while the 223 goes from 19’s to 21’s. The 21's on the 223 have proven to be a nightmare for many while I truly miss the 18” option.
4. The interior of the 222 was absolutely elegant in my opinion, while the 223, with its “hot-glued on” screens looks somewhat ridiculous in a luxury saloon.
5. The tech in the 222 was great and I believe it is still way good enough for 2023. Even though a touch screen has benefits, I much preferred the vast number of buttons, switches & ***** in the 222’s. The control “surfaces” in the 223 are annoying at best and to me, represent a significant CHEAPENING of the vehicle. In my 222, it was a simple push of a button to raise the car when entering a steep driveway or such. Raising the car in the 223 involves going into several menus and it's a pain in the ***. In addition, my 222's NEVER lost all of my settings, where my 223 CONSTANTLY loses everything that I so painstakingly programmed into it.
6. The post face lift 222 steering wheel was a beautiful delight in comparison to the black plastic one with the nearly" impossible to use by touch" controls in the 223’s.
7. Exterior door handles. Need I explain?
8. The wide opening doors on the 223, that require “gorilla” length arms to close and are constantly not holding and closing on my legs are a poor design compared to those in the 222’s. On a car the price of an S Class, the doors should stay put, WHATEVER distance they are opened to.
9. The “attention dots” in the 223 are a pain in the ***.
10. The marketing of the 223 in the USA is such that buyers are forced into expensive packages to get perhaps one little option they might want. 4-Zone Climate ONLY being available by spending a huge sum for the “made up” Executive Line is one example, not to mention the rear axle steering.
11. I found the seats in the 222’s to be reasonably more comfortable than those in the 223’s. The edges of the "loose look" cushions in my Exclusive Nappa Leather interior are wearing very quickly.
12. The headrests in the 223’s, with their CHINTZY pillows are truly crummy, when compared to the absolutely wonderful and supremely comfortable headrests in the 222’s.
13. The exterior of the 222's was elegant, compared to the attractive, but more mainstream looking 223. So many cars currently have taillights that are very similar to those on the 223. The 222 was more "special" looking.
14. The basic way the engine & transmission work together was much better in the 222's. The driveline in my 223 seems sloppy at times, especially around town, where you are on & off throttle a lot.
15. The 222 was a more enjoyable and a more comfortable car to drive. It was infinitely more dependable.
After owning 2015, 2018 & 2020 S560’s and now my 2022 S580, here are my thoughts, MY OPINIONS:
1. The 222 was available with or without 4-Matic, something I don’t want or need, but is shoved down my throat in the 223.
2. The 222 was available with the truly magnificent Magic Body Control or "MBC." The much more expensive EABC, which replaced MBC, in comparison, is absolutely dismal in providing a comfortable ride.
3. The 222 was available with 18” to 20” wheels, while the 223 goes from 19’s to 21’s. The 21's on the 223 have proven to be a nightmare for many while I truly miss the 18” option.
4. The interior of the 222 was absolutely elegant in my opinion, while the 223, with its “hot-glued on” screens looks somewhat ridiculous in a luxury saloon.
5. The tech in the 222 was great and I believe it is still way good enough for 2023. Even though a touch screen has benefits, I much preferred the vast number of buttons, switches & ***** in the 222’s. The control “surfaces” in the 223 are annoying at best and to me, represent a significant CHEAPENING of the vehicle. In my 222, it was a simple push of a button to raise the car when entering a steep driveway or such. Raising the car in the 223 involves going into several menus and it's a pain in the ***. In addition, my 222's NEVER lost all of my settings, where my 223 CONSTANTLY loses everything that I so painstakingly programmed into it.
6. The post face lift 222 steering wheel was a beautiful delight in comparison to the black plastic one with the nearly" impossible to use by touch" controls in the 223’s.
7. Exterior door handles. Need I explain?
8. The wide opening doors on the 223, that require “gorilla” length arms to close and are constantly not holding and closing on my legs are a poor design compared to those in the 222’s. On a car the price of an S Class, the doors should stay put, WHATEVER distance they are opened to.
9. The “attention dots” in the 223 are a pain in the ***.
10. The marketing of the 223 in the USA is such that buyers are forced into expensive packages to get perhaps one little option they might want. 4-Zone Climate ONLY being available by spending a huge sum for the “made up” Executive Line is one example, not to mention the rear axle steering.
11. I found the seats in the 222’s to be reasonably more comfortable than those in the 223’s. The edges of the "loose look" cushions in my Exclusive Nappa Leather interior are wearing very quickly.
12. The headrests in the 223’s, with their CHINTZY pillows are truly crummy, when compared to the absolutely wonderful and supremely comfortable headrests in the 222’s.
13. The exterior of the 222's was elegant, compared to the attractive, but more mainstream looking 223. So many cars currently have taillights that are very similar to those on the 223. The 222 was more "special" looking.
14. The basic way the engine & transmission work together was much better in the 222's. The driveline in my 223 seems sloppy at times, especially around town, where you are on & off throttle a lot.
15. The 222 was a more enjoyable and a more comfortable car to drive. It was infinitely more dependable.
This is from another member who has both and drives both:
I drive both on any given day. We are truly blessed to be able to. These are personal opinions on those:
The W223 handles better, feels lighter on its feet. The large touch screen on the W223 is easier to navigate then all the roller ***** and various buttons located throughout the dash and console on the W222. The seats are more comfortable in the W223.
However, the interior looks more elegant in the W222. The W222 is more quiet and feels like your riding on a smooth sheet of glass. The W222's exterior looks more elegant and is more frequently recognized by others as a high end Mercedes. If the parking is sketchy, we take the less costly W222
The W223 handles better, feels lighter on its feet. The large touch screen on the W223 is easier to navigate then all the roller ***** and various buttons located throughout the dash and console on the W222. The seats are more comfortable in the W223.
However, the interior looks more elegant in the W222. The W222 is more quiet and feels like your riding on a smooth sheet of glass. The W222's exterior looks more elegant and is more frequently recognized by others as a high end Mercedes. If the parking is sketchy, we take the less costly W222
08-23-23, 02:49 PM
#6185
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
If I could just get into a 223 for what I'm paying for my 222 I would probably just do that, but its going to cost $700-$1,000 a month more than my 222 so I gotta love it and be happy. i7 I bet I could get within $250-300 of what I am paying, and I wouldn't be spending $400 a month for gas.
08-23-23, 02:51 PM
#6186
Lead Lap
Don't get me wrong, the W223 is a great looking car, it just doesn't wow me the way the W222 did, a lot of people feel that way both owners, enthusiasts and reviewers have said the same thing. The other issue is people at MBWorld have had a LOT of problems with them, and several people who had 222s and upgraded say they don't ride as well, one member is getting rid of his and going back to a CPO W222. I don't like the look of the interior either. For me to replace my car which I really love with something thats going to cost a lot more than what I'm paying, its got to wow me. I just don't feel that about the 223, I did feel that when I drove that i7. This is a quote from the MBWorld member who is going back to the 222:
08-23-23, 03:00 PM
#6187
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Lol I knew that was Steamliner who wrote that comparison without even needing to read halfway through. That is one persnickety individual.
Contrast this to someone who posted on Bimmerpost who has a 760 and a S580 and an A8L:
......and we're back in a new 7er.
General impressions-
Excellent ride; beats our S580 and Audi A8L. Fantastic seats. Interior reminds me of when the E65 came out (my first 7) and how futuristic it looked. Exterior has a good road presence. I have the all black M sport package and I like the look; not a fan of the light up grille. iDriver interface is too complex, especially climate controls. Otherwise, car driving dynamics remind of a Rolls Ghost.
General impressions-
Excellent ride; beats our S580 and Audi A8L. Fantastic seats. Interior reminds me of when the E65 came out (my first 7) and how futuristic it looked. Exterior has a good road presence. I have the all black M sport package and I like the look; not a fan of the light up grille. iDriver interface is too complex, especially climate controls. Otherwise, car driving dynamics remind of a Rolls Ghost.
Remember too the i7 rides better than the 760 because its 1,200 lbs heavier. RR Ghost ride is right up my alley...
I'm in no hurry, I need to buy a warranty before 50k miles if I'm going to keep my S560, and I have 41k miles, I'm good on having to make a decision until early spring. Gonna drive a lot of stuff, new Range Rover too...
Last edited by SW17LS; 08-23-23 at 03:08 PM.
08-23-23, 03:26 PM
#6188
Lexus Champion
That's funny about the 223 vs 222 since that also mirrors my thoughts on it as well, it's annoying when the newer gen simply doesn't work as well irl as the older one.
I had the same issue with my A8s, I didn't like the D5s screen based interior as much and it wasn't as usable as direct control buttons. Oh and they ruined the sharpness on everything but the S8 and that car has other issues that lead me to conclude that I'll just skip D5 and go to Bentley instead since that is a direct upgrade with no drawbacks.
EDIT: I should probably clarify that by direct I mean that the D5 is very smooth at normal speeds but doesn't feel nearly as connected to your inputs and when over 90 it's really doesn't feel the same. It's a good bit quieter for the normal trims since they never brought the W12 here for the D5
I had the same issue with my A8s, I didn't like the D5s screen based interior as much and it wasn't as usable as direct control buttons. Oh and they ruined the sharpness on everything but the S8 and that car has other issues that lead me to conclude that I'll just skip D5 and go to Bentley instead since that is a direct upgrade with no drawbacks.
EDIT: I should probably clarify that by direct I mean that the D5 is very smooth at normal speeds but doesn't feel nearly as connected to your inputs and when over 90 it's really doesn't feel the same. It's a good bit quieter for the normal trims since they never brought the W12 here for the D5
Last edited by Striker223; 08-23-23 at 03:40 PM.
08-23-23, 03:34 PM
#6189
Lead Lap
Remember too the i7 rides better than the 760 because its 1,200 lbs heavier. RR Ghost ride is right up my alley...
I'm in no hurry, I need to buy a warranty before 50k miles if I'm going to keep my S560, and I have 41k miles, I'm good on having to make a decision until early spring. Gonna drive a lot of stuff, new Range Rover too...
I'm in no hurry, I need to buy a warranty before 50k miles if I'm going to keep my S560, and I have 41k miles, I'm good on having to make a decision until early spring. Gonna drive a lot of stuff, new Range Rover too...
08-23-23, 03:42 PM
#6191
Lexus Champion
That wasn't a direct shot at you, just my own opinion.
I've put over 200mi on my grandma's i7 at this point so I'm well acquainted with the ride. I think it's better than the Ghost because it doesn't include as much body roll. Like I said before the styling is the only barrier I personally have as they did a fantastic job otherwise. We have two new Range Rovers in my extended family and they're not mind blowing imo. A notable evolution. If you liked the last one you'll love the new one.
I've put over 200mi on my grandma's i7 at this point so I'm well acquainted with the ride. I think it's better than the Ghost because it doesn't include as much body roll. Like I said before the styling is the only barrier I personally have as they did a fantastic job otherwise. We have two new Range Rovers in my extended family and they're not mind blowing imo. A notable evolution. If you liked the last one you'll love the new one.
08-23-23, 04:21 PM
#6194
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
No worries, I didn't take it as one.
Yeah and I have come to like the styling, but I don't love the concept of driving something that is polarizing. My friend that has a 760 though said that he gets more comments and compliments on his 760 than any car he has ever had, and he has a G Wagen and a Mclaren lol. I have heard that from some others too. I think people in the real world like them more than forums and the press would indicate.
I liked the old RR a lot, my hangup is just going from a sedan to an SUV. Like when I drove that X7 M50i, I liked it but when I got into that i7 and then my car its just so clear to me that I just prefer a sedan.
I've put over 200mi on my grandma's i7 at this point so I'm well acquainted with the ride. I think it's better than the Ghost because it doesn't include as much body roll. Like I said before the styling is the only barrier I personally have as they did a fantastic job otherwise. We have two new Range Rovers in my extended family and they're not mind blowing imo. A notable evolution. If you liked the last one you'll love the new one.
I liked the old RR a lot, my hangup is just going from a sedan to an SUV. Like when I drove that X7 M50i, I liked it but when I got into that i7 and then my car its just so clear to me that I just prefer a sedan.
08-23-23, 04:46 PM
#6195
Anyone has ever had psi drop during hot weather? Today I got a soft warning on low pressure and noticed a drop 2-3 psi on all tires. I did drive through some bumpy roads and wondered if it was the cause.