General Car Conversation
#6376
Lexus Champion
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I have no idea which one does a better job, all I can say, is downsizing from a 6 to 4 is a terrible thing to do. Especially if you’re using or used to V6 engines for a long time. There is nothing to convince me, that a four-cylinder is superior to a V6. Four cylinders are noisy, and they vibrate, and an RX is supposed to be a luxury crossover
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#6377
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Contrast that to the Germans and even Cadillac which have continued to invest in new, modern 6 cyl and 8 cyl engines, and look at the sales performance of those vehicles vs the sales performance of those Lexus vehicles and its really clear which approach the buying public prefers. Its hard to make an argument that Lexus is "right" in their approach when all the sales figures suggest they aren't. The reality is they don't care about being right, they are milking these old platforms and these old engines and these cars are all profit for them now so they don't care if they sell many. But, the result of that is there will be no next gen LC or IS as we know them because the investment isn't worth it for Lexus, they will be replaced by EVs.
I absolutely do recognize the sound difference, but do you recognize the performance difference? You're giving up a lot of feel and performance for sound. You've had both and you're okay with that tradeoff but other people are not wrong for wanting the opposite and wanting the performance over the sound.
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#6378
Lexus Fanatic
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I have no idea which one does a better job, all I can say, is downsizing from a 6 to 4 is a terrible thing to do. Especially if you’re using or used to V6 engines for a long time. There is nothing to convince me, that a four-cylinder is superior to a V6. Four cylinders are noisy, and they vibrate, and an RX is supposed to be a luxury crossover
Reality is though, by and large buyers don't care. Look at the MB GLE, they have available a 350 4 cyl, a 450 6 cyl and a 580 8 cyl. Overwhelmingly you see 4 cyl GLE350s...if I see a GLE450 its rare, and a GLE580 is almost impossible to find on the road.
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#6379
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I'm not incorrect, Lexus has not decided to keep using the same engine for 16 years in their cars simply because they like the sound. Yes it does sound great, but the economy of continuing to use that engine that has long since earned its keep is the reason why they even make those vehicles. If they needed to develop a new modern V8 there would be no LC, for example. There will be no modern 6 cyls from Lexus or Toyota, the next gen ES will have the new turbo 4. So if you want 6 and 8 cyl power from Lexus, its going to be from these 16 year old engines or its not going to exist period. The TTV6 thats in the LS and LX etc is the last non 4 cyl engine you will see come from Toyota, and I'm mystified as to why they haven't used it more.
Contrast that to the Germans and even Cadillac which have continued to invest in new, modern 6 cyl and 8 cyl engines, and look at the sales performance of those vehicles vs the sales performance of those Lexus vehicles and its really clear which approach the buying public prefers. Its hard to make an argument that Lexus is "right" in their approach when all the sales figures suggest they aren't. The reality is they don't care about being right, they are milking these old platforms and these old engines and these cars are all profit for them now so they don't care if they sell many. But, the result of that is there will be no next gen LC or IS as we know them because the investment isn't worth it for Lexus, they will be replaced by EVs.
I absolutely do recognize the sound difference, but do you recognize the performance difference? You're giving up a lot of feel and performance for sound. You've had both and you're okay with that tradeoff but other people are not wrong for wanting the opposite and wanting the performance over the sound.
Contrast that to the Germans and even Cadillac which have continued to invest in new, modern 6 cyl and 8 cyl engines, and look at the sales performance of those vehicles vs the sales performance of those Lexus vehicles and its really clear which approach the buying public prefers. Its hard to make an argument that Lexus is "right" in their approach when all the sales figures suggest they aren't. The reality is they don't care about being right, they are milking these old platforms and these old engines and these cars are all profit for them now so they don't care if they sell many. But, the result of that is there will be no next gen LC or IS as we know them because the investment isn't worth it for Lexus, they will be replaced by EVs.
I absolutely do recognize the sound difference, but do you recognize the performance difference? You're giving up a lot of feel and performance for sound. You've had both and you're okay with that tradeoff but other people are not wrong for wanting the opposite and wanting the performance over the sound.
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#6380
Lexus Fanatic
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I never said said they are wrong. I bought them myself. Was I wrong? Only that there are some benefits to NA. Is it impossible to think someone could go to NA from a turbo and still be happy? You seem to think so. Do you think someone who buys a 458 or GT3 wants to go back to a turbo? Do those NA engines not perform well?
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#6381
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uhh, pot calling kettle. I never said or think people who buy turbo’s are wrong. I never said what you leased was wrong. I said I would not buy one. There’s a difference. What’s right for you doesn’t have to be right for me. Stop putting words in my mouth. I’ve even complimented you on the interior.
Last edited by Sodbuster1; 08-28-23 at 10:14 AM.
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#6383
Lead Lap
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I personally liked the large NA V8 I had in my SRT Durango compared to the TTV8 in my X7. I loved the torque off the line of the large V8 in the SRT Durango where even at half throttle it jumped of the line faster. With the X7 it doesn't do that and I'm sure it wasn't really meant to do that or feel that way since they are for different buyers but for me give me the big hemi V8. The one benefit I do see is that gas mileage is noticeably better with the smaller TTV8.
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#6384
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I personally liked the large NA V8 I had in my SRT Durango compared to the TTV8 in my X7. I loved the torque off the line of the large V8 in the SRT Durango where even at half throttle it jumped of the line faster. With the X7 it doesn't do that and I'm sure it wasn't really meant to do that or feel that way since they are for different buyers but for me give me the big hemi V8. The one benefit I do see is that gas mileage is noticeably better with the smaller TTV8.
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#6386
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I personally liked the large NA V8 I had in my SRT Durango compared to the TTV8 in my X7. I loved the torque off the line of the large V8 in the SRT Durango where even at half throttle it jumped of the line faster. With the X7 it doesn't do that and I'm sure it wasn't really meant to do that or feel that way since they are for different buyers but for me give me the big hemi V8. The one benefit I do see is that gas mileage is noticeably better with the smaller TTV8.
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#6387
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#6388
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Yeah I have my individual mode set to engine sport and the rest comfort and I had it coded to default to that
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#6389
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#6390
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Yeah I have had cars that aggressively hold gears in sport and that is annoying, thankfully my S560 isn’t like that
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