Striker223

Im surprised you guys need to code a default state, my Audis just remain where they were left. I hear you that low speed driving is annoying in sport+, that feeling of inconsistent/jerky power is something I've remarked on many times with turbo engines when you aren't being aggressive.

SW17LS

Yeah most cars don’t do that. It’s because of EPA regs. The mileage is calculated off of the most aggressive drive mode that can default to selected when restarted.

Striker223

Oh, well suddenly my Mpg makes more sense lol! I guess my listed is assumed the car is left in full aggressive, I guess it didn't matter for CAFE at the time?

Toys4RJill

yeah

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

while there's nothing to convince YOU, tons of buyers don't care. when the E350 went to the E300 mercedes with the 4 cyl turbo, they continued to sell tons of them. a friend of mine who leases one e-class after another was shocked when i told him his e300 had a 4 cyl engine in it. he had no idea. and that e300 was definitely smooth. yes at higher rpms the 4 cyl sound become obvious but other than that, it was great.

in europe a HUGE majority of 'luxury' cars are 2.0L or less turbo 4 cyl engines.

FrankReynoldsCPA

It would be interesting to get data from the automakers whether the 4 or 6 cylinder versions of their cars sell better, but I'd bet in most cases it's the 4.

There's no way that there are more 340i's than 330i's out there.

mmarshall

As I recall, some versions of the recent full-size Cadillac CT6 sedan had a 2.0T four in it.

AJT123

What it is is golden old school American V8 power he's talking about that his Durango had, the kind that everyone's (in general) forgotten about. A huge V8 has massive instant torque.

Lol, NA big displacement torque is a real thing. I don't think he has it in any incorrect setting, I know exactly what he means. A huge V8 will pull/fly off the line quicker and more satisfactorily than a turbo counterpart. Ecoboost versus GM 6.2 I just compared, perfect example of that. Similar power, different delivery. NA V8 wins.

geko29

He doesn't have an Ecoboost, he has a V8 with two twin-scroll turbos in a Hot-vee configuration. It already makes ~25 lbft more torque at idle than the GM 6.2, and skyrockets to a dead flat ~520lbft peak from 1700-4500rpm; while the NA takes its time getting to ~460lbft at 4200rpm. Torque curves here for the S560 and here for a 6.2L Tahoe

It makes so much torque down low that Mercedes decided to have it start in 2nd gear because that was more befitting of a setting called "Comfort". If the engine was anemic off the line they would have had it start in first. Steve's re-code has it default to sport, which forces it to start in 1st and restores that "instant" throttle response.

AJT123

I'm not comparing a truck engine/truck to an S-class, I just mean in general. But FWIW I've been in an S-class several times and there's a hint of lag, not much at all but it is there.

For example, one of the bridesmaids for the wedding we were just at and had an R230 SL and I drove it yesterday and I finally experienced the old 5.5 NA with 391/ft/lb... Was blown away by the second gear pull, way faster than our SL. Turbo not needed, lol.

Stroock639

i'd really love to get your opinion on the M113 Kompressor with 520+ ft/lbs :D

i'd also love to drive the previous gen E55 with the 5.4 N/A since i've only experienced that engine in the ML55, and even in that heavy truck it was fun and muscley feeling... with several hundred pounds less to move around an E-class with that engine must be super fun

Striker223

There is still a delay, I have an even faster responding engine that is remapped to more TQ (over 650) and lower boost threshold and it still has times it can be caught hesitating.

Those charts are assuming boost threshold is met and gates/bypasses are closed. On paper is different than reality, on paper my 4.0 has more TQ than my W12 but reality is much different and it also doesn't carry TQ into the upper RPMs as well, the 4.0 has a savage TQ hit at 2000-4000 then it actually drops below the 12 and the 13 then actually ramps up from 450 up to 500 for 4000-5000 rpm where the 4.0 is dropping off fast.

There is also no boost threshold with the 12 and it has 420 off idle truly instantly at any throttle or gear once you are at 1100 rpm, the TTV8 can't do that. It needs 2300ish to have boost at part throttle and it's not seamless and can be jerky in comparison. That same 6.2 in a car is a whole different animal and while sure it will lose every time to a hot-V (part of the reason I never considered one) it's extremely direct. After trying turbos I'm sticking with NA and supercharged for the instant response/1:1 input to TQ

Striker223

It's fantastic but you would know that lol! It's my favorite Mercedes engine, I love it in the S55

1111GS

Yeah their 4 cyl is fine even on the GLE that some cars people here trash it. Of course, it's no where near I6 turbo but that's a bad comparison. When compared to the famous V6 in the RX, the V6 shows no superior (that majority owners care). While some may buy certain cars for its brand, I don't think GLE or E is one of those. The difference to move up to I6 is not that significant. What (performance) we don't think enough here is more than what the buyers need.

SW17LS

As was said before, we are talking about a near 500 hp ttV8 not an EcoBoost, what you describe is just not true of an engine like this. The Hemi V8 in the Durango only has 360 hp and 390 lb ft of torque. The V8 in the X7 is massively more powerful. The HEMI has peak torque at 3,900 RPM which is low for a NA engine, but my S560 has peak torque at 2,000 RPM and has 125 more lb feet of torque. "Big displacement V8" or not the engine in my car is much more powerful. Of course starting in second gear vs first gear makes a huge difference in throttle response.

The V8 in the X7 has peak torque available at 1800 RPM. 2,100 RPM earlier than the Durango and it has almost 200 ft lbs more toruque. The X7 50i also does 0-60 a full second faster than the Hemi Durango. The Hemi has similar power to the I6 X7, the V8 is dramatically more powerful and has that peak power available much lower in the power band. In his scenario just like in my car the drive mode is retarding the throttle response in the name of smoothness.

I know you like NA V8s, but like we said in the fuel economy discussion you can't beat physics, an engine with similar power and torque available at much lower RPM will feel much faster in everyday driving. If you are WOT with both, then no because you will be in the torque powerband for the NA engine too, but when accelerating from a light normally the turbo engine will feel much peppier, thats just physics.



In 41,000 miles of driving my S560 I have never felt any sort of turbo lag whatsoever. It feels no different in throttle smoothness or power availability vs the many NA V8s I have had, other than it having much more power lower down in the RPM band. Maybe if you're calling for WOT all the time you might feel some delay, but if you drive it like 99% of people will drive it, theres nothing not to love. I don't miss the NA V8s I had one bit.