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that's why in the late 80s / early 90s era of massive turbos (XJ220, F40, etc...) gordon murray was totally adamant (and still is) that the F1 have a n/a V12
just for context, this is a high compression 6.1 liter 630 hp V12 with nearly 500 ft lbs in a car that weighs less than a 3rd gen miata (engine included!!) and sat 3 comfortably! i can only go based on what others have said lol but the throttle response is just off the charts in any gear at any speed
It must be insane for sure, the noise of one of those is great.
Your point of any gear response is what people are probably missing, they are used to having a shift happen and then power comes. It's totally different if you have something that doesn't need that AND instantly reacts
Displacement and cylinders absolutely matter..
‘I don’t have any issue with a turbo, but as long as it replaces the corresponding engine size that it replaces. Your Mercedes turbo V8 replaced a NA V8. I just don’t accept the downsize in engine from 8 to 6 or 6 to 4. The LX should be a V8.
of concern is that it adds more complexity. To me that is not OK because I keep my cars so long. More things to break.
Personally I would buy the V8 Escalade over any of the other three, I’d even rather have a Tahoe. Then the Navigator because I like body on frame SUVs.
I would take Escalade over LX any day. IMO X7/GLS are different from the rest. They are very DD friendly. A guy down my street just got a refresh GLS. I think new tails look nice, nicer than GLE's new tails. And most if not all of these folks don't keep their cars long so I doubt long term reliability is their concern.
Originally Posted by SW17LS
I was reading an MT comparison test of the X7, GLS, Escalade and Navigator and I saw this quote that reminded me of our debate about NA engines vs turbo engines and how I said that now that I'm used to turbo power I find it hard to go back to NA power:
Bear in mind the X7 they had was the I6...not the V8... https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...n-test-review/
I rented an Escalade before for our trip. Wonderful, effortless. But I6 is wonderful as well. Regardless, I think Escalade is in its own category. Recently I've seen a few new V versions around me. I always want one of these but that's all want, no need.
It must be insane for sure, the noise of one of those is great.
Your point of any gear response is what people are probably missing, they are used to having a shift happen and then power comes. It's totally different if you have something that doesn't need that AND instantly reacts
i've read articles where gordon murray talked about taking people for first time rides in the F1, putting his foot down at 50 mph or so and people being wowed by the instant acceleration, then him going ok shall we try that again in a different gear than 6th? now that's an engine haha
and yes one of the greatest induction noises of all time, exhaust however i always thought had an interesting sound to it (not bad just different to other V12s), and i eventually learned it was due to the F1's engine using 4 sets of 3-to-1 headers... so in terms of acoustics it's more like having 2 V6's instead of 1 V12
the CLK GTR also has an exhaust setup like this, whereas the lambo V12 and pagani zonda f use 6-to-1 headers which gives that full scream effect
drive a 2.0T mercedes and below 2000 rpm they are slugs... if you manually lock the car into a higher gear and put your foot down in your S560 it'll also feel slow until like 2000 rpm when the turbos fully get going
i agree it's basically a non issue when you literally have to go out of your way to highlight the "shortcomings" but from an enthusiasts POV that brief lag between putting your foot down is very noticeable
and the V8s in your LS's didn't "feel small" because they are high compression and have a torque curve that starts out high at idle and progressively increases, whereas a turbo engine starts off with basically nothing and then suddenly comes to life
Nobody is talking about a 2.0T 4 cyl feeling quick lol, I’m just saying I never have any issues with turbo lag or boost etc in my 4L TTV8, it feels just like my NA V8s just with much more power down low.
Originally Posted by AJT123
I did that when I had that Ecoboost F-150 with 500ft/lbs to test it, it was slowwwwwwwwwww.
Big difference in FI vs NA to me personally. I've said this before but you can't catch a great NA engine off guard (like the GM 6.2). I caught that EB snoozing way too much for a $75,000 truck's powertrain.
Thats the V6 though, in a TTV8 vs that NA V8 you’re not going to have that issue.
I would not rather have a turbo V6 vs a V8 but I would rather have a turbo V8 than a NA V8.
Just released that they are dropping the HEMI in the Ram trucks. So no more V8 option for Ram!
That is a possibility I've been considering.... I don't really want to put miles on it though but I can just hardly drive it or something for a couple months to make up for it.
It's cool bc the dude isn't going anywhere and neither am I, this isn't an emergency. He knows we have a deal and that it'll take a minute for me to come get it and figure it out etc.
Could you rent a pickup that would be big enough for the top from someplace like Enterprise etc.? Not sure what it might cost, but probably 500-600 miles each way?
Could you rent a pickup that would be big enough for the top from someplace like Enterprise etc.? Not sure what it might cost, but probably 500-600 miles each way?
Yes, I can hop a cheapppppppp flight to Chicago and rent a pickup. But I don’t think it would fit in a standard pickup bed. It’s 62 inches wide I think.
Nobody is talking about a 2.0T 4 cyl feeling quick lol, I’m just saying I never have any issues with turbo lag or boost etc in my 4L TTV8, it feels just like my NA V8s just with much more power down low.
the 2.0T does feel quick though, but only after the turbo spools up... a 4.0TT is no different, but i assume like normal people you just drive in D where the transmission will always keep you in the right gear to avoid excessive lag
like i said, when you have to go out of your way to highlight something it's basically irrelevant lol
I will say that I am sold on turbochargers after buying this 540i. The combination of an inline-6 and a turbo just feels right. I'll always love the V8 in my F-150 and it's never going anywhere as long as I can help it, but I can totally see why people have embraced smaller turbocharged engines. I wouldn't mind seeing Ford move from V6 to I6 engines for the ecoboosts.
Nobody is talking about a 2.0T 4 cyl feeling quick lol, I’m just saying I never have any issues with turbo lag or boost etc in my 4L TTV8, it feels just like my NA V8s just with much more power down low.
Thats the V6 though, in a TTV8 vs that NA V8 you’re not going to have that issue.
I would not rather have a turbo V6 vs a V8 but I would rather have a turbo V8 than a NA V8.
!
I bet the handcrafted 6.2 V8 that Mercedes used to offer would be superior to your 4.0TTV8
I bet the handcrafted 6.2 V8 that Mercedes used to offer would be superior to your 4.0TTV8
I've had both. The sound of the 6.2L M156/M159 and linear powerband were just a delight. Truly a high point in Mercedes history but, for me, only when installed in the SLS. Otherwise I'd pick the M177 4.0 V8TT and its variants every single time over the 6.2L V8. It fits the character of MB cars better and the torque is absolutely addicting.
I've had both. The sound of the 6.2L M156/M159 and linear powerband were just a delight. Truly a high point in Mercedes history but, for me, only when installed in the SLS. Otherwise I'd pick the M177 4.0 V8TT and its variants every single time over the 6.2L V8. It fits the character of MB cars better and the torque is absolutely addicting.
that's why i'm all about the M113K, you're just riding this wave of boosted torque which is perfect for a luxury cruiser where you want that effortless 2500 rpm passing capability
pretty sure they only did the M156 to reclaim the "most powerful n/a engine" title from BMW after they released that incredible S85 V10
I will say that I am sold on turbochargers after buying this 540i. The combination of an inline-6 and a turbo just feels right. I'll always love the V8 in my F-150 and it's never going anywhere as long as I can help it, but I can totally see why people have embraced smaller turbocharged engines. I wouldn't mind seeing Ford move from V6 to I6 engines for the ecoboosts.
This thing is quick!
because that does turbocharging the "right" way, which is to take an already quick engine (high compression I6) and make it even faster with boost
downsizing an existing engine then adding a turbo to "replicate" the original bigger engine just gives you something that feels sluggish at low speeds, sounds dull, and revs in a boring lifeless way
that's why i'm all about the M113K, you're just riding this wave of boosted torque which is perfect for a luxury cruiser where you want that effortless 2500 rpm passing capability
pretty sure they only did the M156 to reclaim the "most powerful n/a engine" title from BMW after they released that incredible S85 V10
The M113k will always have a soft spot in my heart. My grandpa drove a S55 for a while and I just couldn't get enough of it. If I ever get more garage or driveway space I'd love to pick up an E55 or well sorted SL55.
the 2.0T does feel quick though, but only after the turbo spools up... a 4.0TT is no different, but i assume like normal people you just drive in D where the transmission will always keep you in the right gear to avoid excessive lag
like i said, when you have to go out of your way to highlight something it's basically irrelevant lol
The turbos spool up really quick…I’ve never felt any lag…
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
I bet the handcrafted 6.2 V8 that Mercedes used to offer would be superior to your 4.0TTV8
Very different engine, too raucous for the kind of experience I want
11-07-23 | 09:56 AM
IMO X7/GLS are different from the rest. They are very DD friendly. A guy down my street just got a refresh GLS. I think new tails look nice, nicer than GLE's new tails. And most if not all of these folks don't keep their cars long so I doubt long term reliability is their concern.
