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No they were always one step below, AMG, RS, M and the 12 cyl cars all exist and Lexus has NEVER had an answer for them.
In 2005 you could have bought an LS, or an S600, SL600, CL600, S55, S65, CL55, CL65, SL55, SL65, 760Li, Alpina B7, S6 V10, A8 W12 and in 2007 the S8 V10.......in what world does the LS even enter the conversation vs those? Mercedes alone clearly proves just how unserious Lexus was since they shoved every engine possible into EVERYTHING they made, to this day Lexus has never come close and never will since they just keep moving themselves lower downmarket by both sales volume and the types of cars they sell. The LC500 should be the NORM not the exception for a luxury brand.
In 1990, when the LS400 debuted, a buyer could have bought a BMW with a twelve cylinder. 1992, Mercedes began offering the S class with it as well. I even think there was a time Mercedes offered not one, but two different 12 cylinder engines for their S class.
The LC500 should be the NORM not the exception for a luxury brand.
In 1990, when the LS400 debuted, a buyer could have bought a BMW with a twelve cylinder. 1992, Mercedes began offering the S class with it as well. I even think there was a time Mercedes offered not one, but two different 12 cylinder engines for their S class.
LC needs a new updated V8 turbo motor
BMW 750il one of the worst cars ever made reliability wise. Of course it’s fabulous when new. Two 8-bit systems controlled that engine (one for each bank) and they could barely communicate with one another.
In 2005 you could have bought an LS, or an S600, SL600, CL600, S55, S65, CL55, CL65, SL55, SL65, 760Li, Alpina B7, S6 V10, A8 W12 and in 2007 the S8 V10.......in what world does the LS even enter the conversation vs those? Mercedes alone clearly proves just how unserious Lexus was since they shoved every engine possible into EVERYTHING they made, to this day Lexus has never come close and never will since they just keep moving themselves lower downmarket by both sales volume and the types of cars they sell. The LC500 should be the NORM not the exception for a luxury brand.
In the world where most people who buy S Classes buy the plain V8 version. Same with the 7. So, Lexus competed very well with the LS430 in 2005 because it met the needs of 95% of flagship buyers, thats why they outsold MB and BMW. Today they don't have a competitor to those cars.
As a buyer I don't care what the brand sells that I'm not buying. The fact that they have V12s and G Wagens etc doesn't move me because all I want is the plain jane V8 version.
Lexus is just never going to be a company that sells all kinds of variants of everything like the Germans, I'm fine with that...I just want the product to compete with the mainstream versions of german luxury cars.
BMW 750il one of the worst cars ever made reliability wise. Of course it’s fabulous when new. Two 8-bit systems controlled that engine (one for each bank) and they could barely communicate with one another.
That’s just the engine.
Was just about to post this. Those early 750iL's were something else reliability wise.
BMW 750il one of the worst cars ever made reliability wise. Of course it’s fabulous when new. Two 8-bit systems controlled that engine (one for each bank) and they could barely communicate with one another.
That’s just the engine.
as a lifelong fan of the mclaren F1 i have to defend that M70 V12 (at least from a mechanical standpoint) since it's what was ultimately developed into the S70 and S70/2 masterpiece powering the F1, as well as the V12 LMR to a total of 2 outright victories at le mans (1995 and 1999)
it was also used in the 850csi which still gets my vote for one of the nicest looking cars ever
In the world where most people who buy S Classes buy the plain V8 version. Same with the 7. So, Lexus competed very well with the LS430 in 2005 because it met the needs of 95% of flagship buyers, thats why they outsold MB and BMW. Today they don't have a competitor to those cars.
As a buyer I don't care what the brand sells that I'm not buying. The fact that they have V12s and G Wagens etc doesn't move me because all I want is the plain jane V8 version.
Lexus is just never going to be a company that sells all kinds of variants of everything like the Germans, I'm fine with that...I just want the product to compete with the mainstream versions of german luxury cars.
And they will always be 2nd rate because of it. Just because it's past what you want doesn't mean other don't want the best
And they will always be 2nd rate because of it. Just because it's past what you want doesn't mean other don't want the best
There's a degree of being "second rate" but since thats not what I want out of a car it doesn't bother me. I want Lexus to be what it was in the 90s...not some idea of what it could be that its never going to be. There is a HUGE amount of waste in the way MB and BMW approach all their many niche models, and Toyota is just not that way culturally as a company.
And BTW, I have the best. Its not that I don't want to spend the money for an S63 or an S65 etc, I wouldn't accept one as an even trade for what I have...don't want one.
Remember Lexus outsold MB and BMW with the LS430 (and the LS460 until 2010) despite them having alllllll those variants. Clearly what they were offering worked.
BMW 750il one of the worst cars ever made reliability wise. Of course it’s fabulous when new. Two 8-bit systems controlled that engine (one for each bank) and they could barely communicate with one another.
That’s just the engine.
Toyotas twelve cylinder had two ECUs as well, one for each bank.
There's a degree of being "second rate" but since thats not what I want out of a car it doesn't bother me. I want Lexus to be what it was in the 90s...not some idea of what it could be that its never going to be. There is a HUGE amount of waste in the way MB and BMW approach all their many niche models, and Toyota is just not that way culturally as a company.
And BTW, I have the best. Its not that I don't want to spend the money for an S63 or an S65 etc, I wouldn't accept one as an even trade for what I have...don't want one.
Remember Lexus outsold MB and BMW with the LS430 (and the LS460 until 2010) despite them having alllllll those variants. Clearly what they were offering worked.
Oh come on lol! You totally would take a 63/65 if someone offered it to you, they are the top version of the S-class after all.....
^^ Lexus just wasn’t included but for some stupid reason they put a Mercedes V8 in the mix.
The use the Mercedes as a "relatable control" type entry so there is something to compare the otherwise non/existent ultimate tier cars with.
All 12 cyl engines use two ECUs, they are treated as two engines and the car can run on one of them if needed. Mine can be told to flip back and forth between the two as a form of cylinder deactivation and part of the transmission service procedure involves only running the drivers side engine.
There are always two MAF/MAPs, 4 upstream 02 sensors, 4 downstream, and two sets of knock sensors etc....there are also two crank sensors and 4 cam sensors and the car can run with half of them dead as the ECUs can share data and cover for lost signals.
It's unlike anything else and I absolutely love how overkill it all is!
I 100% would not. They're too sporty for me. I've never driven an S65 but I have driven an S63, no interest.
Okay what about an S6XX class car? That's the non-sporty top car since you make a good point and Mercedes does indeed have separate flagships depending on preference.
12-04-23, 01:53 PM
