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so the Mercedes you have with its V-8 is not smooth or wonderful?
I do agree about the trade-offs. But I don’t consider this situation worth it
Not as smooth and wonderful as an EV. My only issue is I don’t love the way the car feels when the battery is depleted and the gas engine is running. If they sold the W223 in an EV with 325 miles of range, I would trade now.
You feel that way because you haven’t spent time driving an EV. Once you do gas engines kinda suck. The V8 is still enjoyable but anything other than that…
The cargo issue is not a problem for me. The most I ever have in the trunk is one or two duffel bags, maybe a carry on suitcase. The gas savings are huge as is the EV driving ability. That I would benefit from every day.
As an example, here is my trunk, I have never needed more trunk space than this in the 3 years I have had it, and this is what it looks like 99% of the time:
As an example, here is my trunk, I have never needed more trunk space than this in the 3 years I have had it, and this is what it looks like 99% of the time:
I just find it appalling, that one has to pay more and get less. To be green
Originally Posted by SW17LS
Not as smooth and wonderful as an EV. My only issue is I don’t love the way the car feels when the battery is depleted and the gas engine is running. If they sold the W223 in an EV with 325 miles of range, I would trade now.
You feel that way because you haven’t spent time driving an EV. Once you do gas engines kinda suck. The V8 is still enjoyable but anything other than that…
The cargo issue is not a problem for me. The most I ever have in the trunk is one or two duffel bags, maybe a carry on suitcase. The gas savings are huge as is the EV driving ability. That I would benefit from every day.
I have driven plenty of EV’s and hybrids. I once had a hybrid I am just pointing out the opposite angle, like you have said, you don’t like it when the gas power turns on. I have never liked that. I just prefer a pure gasoline engine with no electrification of any type. and no stop start. the trunk space that is reduced is a trade-off and in my opinion it is a negative in this case. so is the 700 pound weight addition to make the vehicle 5800 pounds.
Originally Posted by AJT123
That can’t be serious. My LS430 has a 20 cubic foot trunk…
It’s a second and a half and some change slower 0-60 but I really don’t need it to be any faster than it is. It’s enough.
Not comparing the two just saying, Steve said his 460 engine was enough. I would agree with that as well as with my 430.
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460 engine was enough. I would agree with that as well as with my 430.
I just find it appalling, that one has to pay more and get less. To be green
Its not about being green, you're focusing on what you lose not what you gain. Everything is a compromise, the battery has to go somewhere. What I would lose in trunk space I don't need I would gain in a better driving experience day to day and dramatically lower fuel cost. I could spend $35,000 more in options for what I would save in fuel from an S580.
I have driven plenty of EV’s and hybrids. I once had a hybrid I am just pointing out the opposite angle, like you have said, you don’t like it when the gas power turns on. I have never liked that. I just prefer a pure gasoline engine with no electrification of any type. and no stop start. the trunk space that is reduced is a trade-off and in my opinion it is a negative in this case. so is the 700 pound weight addition to make the vehicle 5800 pounds.
I just can't imagine having driven a good EV and ever wanting to go back to an ICE powered car. 700 lbs more means it rides even better. I love the fact that our PHEV Pacifica is heavier than our ICE Pacificas, it drives much more premium.
Like I said, on the weekends I walk into the garage and I can drive either car, I chose to drive the Pacifica because of the EV driving experience. Just being real. The only issue I have with the S580e is I don't like the feel of the 6 cyl which on a trip I would be on all the time.
I just can't imagine having driven a good EV and ever wanting to go back to an ICE powered car. 700 lbs more means it rides even better. I love the fact that our PHEV Pacifica is heavier than our ICE Pacificas, it drives much more premium.
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we are talking about a plug-in hybrid here, correct? The Mercedes that you mentioned not a full EV. I have no interest in a hybrid, from a long-term perspective. There are many more parts to fail, such as batteries and other such items. Battery. The less to fail the better in my opinion. hybrid components also add weight, which I don’t like as it adds to the cost.
Anyways can we agree not to turn this into an combustion engine verse electric debate?
I do want to point out that Mercedes is having issues worth noting with the 48V system currently. My guy at the dealer even confirmed it.
8 cubic feet of luggage space in an S-Class is unacceptable. As is adding electric motors and hybrid assist. Regular V8 was plenty, and plenty efficient.
Just seems like a lot of compromises, the huge weight penalty, etc. for all this crap when there's NOTHING wrong, in any way, with the W222 ICE only V8 propulsion. My friend's mom keeps wanting to trade her W222 for a W223 S580 and I keep warning him about all the complexity, etc. She's getting it regardless so we'll see!
I do want to point out that Mercedes is having issues worth noting with the 48V system currently. My guy at the dealer even confirmed it.
that's nothing! have you heard about the new C43? cars that are like several days old need to go back to the dealer for entirely new engines
from what i've read, sand leftover from the engine casting process will contaminate the coolant and ruin the entire cooling system... here are just a few first hand accounts:
I purchased a 2023 AMG C43 on September 9th. Was super happy with until 2 days later the check engine light came on. Took it to the dealer to get checked out and first was told some coolant cap had to be replaced. A week goes by I’m told the engine is getting debris in it. Then I’m told the thermostat has to be replaced and now today I’m told they are replacing the whole engine! I already had complained enough and was told Monday they are looking for a new car but at this point I’m concerned I’m getting close to 30 days from purchase and then want to lose the option of getting my money back. Has anyone gone through this? Any ideas on what to do?
Got my 2023 C43 AMG earlier this year. Had it for about two weeks and it was shifting clunky between first and second gear. Then it gave out and started shaking violently non-stop. Nearly stalling at full stops. I made it to the dealership and they proceeded to have it for the next 48 days. Had to order new cylinder heads and some other parts. Got it back, then it started having battery issues and yesterday a rear axle issue. Now it won't start. Engine isn't turning over at all. So towed this morning. Back in the shop for who knows how long. Lemon law time.
Here is a summary of my C43 AMG purchasing experience...
9/11 - Drove the car home around 6pm. Everything seemed fine.
9/12 - Noticed the check engine light was on around 11 AM. Took the car to the dealership and was told I have bad coolant. Needed to just be flushed.
9/13 - Was told that my thermostat was clogged and needed replacement. Would take a couple days and be kind of a big job.
9/14 - Was told there might be some left over sand in my engine.
9/15 - Was told there was no sand in the engine. Dissolved iron in the coolant broke my thermostat.
9/19 - They installed the new thermostat but it was leaking coolant so they needed to replace it again.
9/21 - I was finally able to pick up my car. Everything seemed good and I drove it about 400 miles over the weekend.
9/24 - Noticed that the car felt a little sluggish while driving, figured it was all in my head. Almost got rear ended once when trying to merge onto highway since it did not accelerate nearly as fast as I expected.
9/25 - Check engine light came back on so brought the car back to the dealership. Was told that they could find nothing wrong. They kept it overnight to road test the car.
9/26 - The check engine light came back on for them and they concluded that the coolant was under-heating.
9/28 - They still have my car. Waiting for the MB engineering team to get back to them.
Can't say I really want the car anymore even if they do manage to "fix" it. For now I am stuck with it. Dealership has refused to refund me after multiple requests. I have tried reaching out to MBUSA over email and phone and have not heard back. I guess at this point I am waiting for the lemon law to trigger and will probably have to involve a lawyer.
UPDATE:
9/29 - Was told that Mercedes has asked them to flush the coolant yet again.
9/29 - Dealership has offered me a clean swap for a new C43.
10/3 - Sold it back to the dealership at a 10k loss and bought a BMW.
that's just in the past 2 months, and there's still more i didn't include!
that's nothing! have you heard about the new C43? cars that are like several days old need to go back to the dealer for entirely new engines
from what i've read, sand leftover from the engine casting process will contaminate the coolant and ruin the entire cooling system... here are just a few first hand accounts:
that's just in the past 2 months, and there's still more i didn't include!
Holy Moly!!! Are you as shocked as I am? Stuffing 400 horsepower into 2.0 liters and 4 cylinders at god knows the turbo PSI? WTF could possibly go wrong!!!!!
I had a somewhat detailed post about EVs from my perspective working in the industry directly and CL ate it. It’s the second time it’s happened so maybe CL does not want that. Infrastructure needs to match the pace of EV enthusiasm for it to work. It isn’t right now.
Holy Moly!!! Are you as shocked as I am? Stuffing 400 horsepower into 2.0 liters and 4 cylinders at god knows the turbo PSI? WTF could possibly go wrong!!!!!
That's very bad, though... what you're reporting.
Them leaving contaminates in the engine after the casting process has nothing to do with power density. They've been doing this for a while and have never suffered issues related to that. The engineering is sound. This was massive gaffe with the early run of these motors though. Mercedes' cost cutting is hitting them majorly from a quality control standpoint. It's no wonder Consume Reports dinged them so badly in their latest report. My first SL was bought back because a charging system fault could not be solved. And I wanted a different color anyways. :P I'm definitely not buying any more Benzes until I see improvement.
Holy Moly!!! Are you as shocked as I am? Stuffing 400 horsepower into 2.0 liters and 4 cylinders at god knows the turbo PSI? WTF could possibly go wrong!!!!!
That's very bad, though... what you're reporting.
if the engines were literally throwing rods or cracking blocks i'd say you have a point, but these are just oversights during the manufacturing process... all the boost in the world won't cause your coolant to become contaminated with casting sand lol
combine that with the mercedes electrics and you have a bunch of new bimmer customers lol
Them leaving contaminates in the engine after the casting process has nothing to do with power density.
I know. But still. Let's see how long these things last. Not off to a great start.
Originally Posted by TangoRed
My first SL was bought back because a charging system fault could not be solved. And I wanted a different color anyways. :P I'm definitely not buying any more Benzes until I see improvement.
we are talking about a plug-in hybrid here, correct? The Mercedes that you mentioned not a full EV. I have no interest in a hybrid, from a long-term perspective. There are many more parts to fail, such as batteries and other such items. Battery. The less to fail the better in my opinion. hybrid components also add weight, which I don’t like as it adds to the cost.
But it has 45 miles of plug in EV range. So, most of my driving would be in EV mode since I don't drive in general more than 45 miles a day. Long term perspective is not an issue for me. Remember in the S580 the V8 is also a hybrid.
The all EV driving is the only thing that appeals to me about the S580e. Gas savings is a nice bonus but it wouldn't be a deciding factor.
Anyways can we agree not to turn this into an combustion engine verse electric debate?
Thats really at the crux of this decision though, its the same car the question is combustion engine vs electric debate.
Originally Posted by AJT123
8 cubic feet of luggage space in an S-Class is unacceptable.
Why? I never use more than 8 cubic feet of luggage space. If I traveled with 4 people and stuff often it would be a different story, but I don't...if I travel in that car its just me, or me and my wife for a weekend getaway or something.
As is adding electric motors and hybrid assist. Regular V8 was plenty, and plenty efficient.
You gotta drive it in full EV. The V8 doesn't compare. As far as efficiency, I spend $400+ a month to fuel just the S Class, an S580e would potentially not even be a tank of gas per month, so the savings in fuel is incredible, it would go from 400 a month to maybe $80 every 6 weeks. However efficient the V8 may be, its not that efficient.
Just seems like a lot of compromises, the huge weight penalty, etc. for all this crap when there's NOTHING wrong, in any way, with the W222 ICE only V8 propulsion. My friend's mom keeps wanting to trade her W222 for a W223 S580 and I keep warning him about all the complexity, etc. She's getting it regardless so we'll see!
Weight "penalty" benefits the car. Its not a sports car, the heavier the car is the better it rides. Its not that there is anything wrong with the V8, its just a different alternative. Having spent time in both, I still love the V8 but I would rather have an EV. My only issue with a full EV like an i7 is traveling and charging. If it weren't for that I would not even consider another ICE car. My wife said the same thing the other day, she has no interest in going back to an ICE only vehicle, at least a PHEV going forward for her.
12-05-23, 12:23 PM
